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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit! (Read 25047 times)
Gambit
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #20 - 10/22/10 at 03:03:17
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Brian McCarthy (2389 USCF) - Zilbermints (1937)
Novag Grand Prix
Westfield, New Jersey, USA
10 December 1994

ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT

1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Bf4 The Klein Defense, popularized by Senior Master Erez Klein.

4...Ng6 5 Bg3 Qe7 6 c3 Nce5 7 e3 d6 8 Be2 Be6 9 Nbd2 Bd5 10 Nb3 Bc6 11 Nd4 Nxf3+ 12 Bxf3 Bxf3 13 Qxf3 00 14 000 Kb8 15 Qd5 Qf6 16 Qb3 Ka8 17 Nb5
Kb8 18 Nd5 Ka8 19 Qc4 Qe7 20 Rd2 h5 21 h4 c6 22 Rhd1 d5 23 Qa4 Qc5 24 Nb3 Qb6 25 e4 Bc5 26 ed cd
27 Nxc5 Qxc5 28 Qd4 Qxd4 29 Rxd4 Ne7 30 Kb1 b5
31 a4 a6 32 ab ab 33 Rb4 Kb7 34 Rxb5+ Kc6 35 Ra5 Ra8 36 Rxa8 Rxa8 37 Be5 Nf5 38 g3 Re8 39 Bf4 Re4 40 b3? Nxh4! 41 Rh1 Ng2 42 Rxh5 Nxf4 43 gf4 Rxf4
44 Rh2 Rf3 45 Kc2 g5 46 Rg2 f6 47 Kd2 Kd6 48 Kc2
Ke5 49 b4 Kd6 50 Kd2 Kc6 51 Kc2 Kb5 52 Kd2 Kb4
53 Rg4+ Kb5 54 Rg2 DRAWN.

This game is in MCO-14 and MCO-15.
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #19 - 03/19/09 at 03:18:09
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Roger Williamson wrote on 03/19/09 at 00:34:03:
Well played, Lev. I could only score 7.5/12 with conventional openings.


Thank you. I swindled GM Chong Liang in the endgame so badly he  withdrew from the tournament. We ended up with bare Kings. At this point I had 0.00.1 left to Liang's 11 seconds! His result was 3.5 while mine was 8.0 ! All of which shows I can handle myself with the best of them in blitz!
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #18 - 03/19/09 at 00:34:03
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Well played, Lev. I could only score 7.5/12 with conventional openings.
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #17 - 03/18/09 at 23:34:20
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I just finished playing in the 10th Dos Hermanas Tournament on the Internet Chess Club, scoring 8/12 points. My score was +6, -2, =3.
Lest you think this was easy, let me assure you that it was not so.

Results against my titled opponents included:

IM Duilio Collutis (Italy, 2443 FIDE) Won

IM Jose   Cubas   (Paraguay, 2439 FIDE, 3 GM norms) Draw

IM RiDiK (unsure of real name and country) Loss

GM  Chong Liang  (China, 2502 FIDE) Draw

IM  Guillermo Soppe (Argentina,  2427 FIDE) Won

GM Ulf Andersson   (Sweden, #4 player, 2571 FIDE) Draw

Okay, you say. Now what?

Well, the time control was 3 0 rated blitz. So here are the results:

Games from Dos Hermanas X

Zilbermints - Collutis
French Defence
Rasa-Studier Gambit

1 d4 Nf6 2 f3 e6 3 e4 d5 4 Be3 dxe4 5 Nc3 Bb4 6 a3 Bxc3+ 7 bxc3 b6
8 Nh3 Bb7 9 Ng5 exf3 10 Nxf3 Nbd7 11 Bd3 Qe7 12 00 Nd5 13 Bd2 000
14 c4 N5f6 15 Qe2 h6 16 a4 a5 17 c5 Nd5 18 cxb6 cxb6 19 Ba6 Qd6
20 Bxb7 Kxb7 21 c4 Nb4 22 c5 bxc5 23 dxc5 Qxc5+ 24 Be3 Qc2??
25 Qb5+ Kc7 26 Rac1 Kd6 27 Rxc2 Nxc2 28 Qd3+ Ke7 29 Qxc2 Nf6
30 Bc5+ Ke8, 1-0/54.

IM Guillermo Soppe - Zilbermints
Zilbermints Gambit
Wigglesworth Defence, 4 Bg5

1 d4 e5 2 de5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Bg5 h6 5 Bh4 g5 6 Bg3 Bg7 7 Nc3 Ng6 8 h4 g4  9 h5 Nge7  10 Nd4 Nxe5 11 e4 d6  12 Be2 N7c6  13 Nf5 Bxf5 14 exf5 Qg5  15 Nd5 000 16 Bh4 Qxf5 17 Bxd8 Rxd8 18 Ne3 Qe4
19 Bxg4+ Kb8 20 00 d5 21 Bf5 Qf4 22 Nxd5 Qh4 23 Nxd5 Qh4 24 Qe2 Nd4 25 Qe4 Ng4! 0-1.

Zilbermints-GM Ulf Andersson
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Teichmann Defence, 4...Bg4
Seidell-Hall Attack, 8 g4

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 Bg4 6 h3 Bxf3 7 Qxf3 c6    8 g4 e6 9 g5 Nd5 10 Bd3 Bb4 11 00 00 12 Ne4 Nd7 13 c3 Be7 14 Qh5 g6 15 Qh6 b5 16 Bd2 a6 17 Rf2 c5 18 Raf1 cxd4 19 Rxf7! Rxf7 20 Rxf7 Kxf7 21 Qxh7+ Kf8 22 Qh8+ Kf7 23 Qh7+ Kf8 24 Qh6+ Kf7
25 Qh7+ Kf8 26 Qh8+ Kf7 27 Qh7+ Kf8 draw.
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #16 - 03/14/09 at 20:56:06
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You bet 7 Qd2 is complicated! It took me three months to analyze and memorize all the variations, back in 1994. Yes, there have been a few improvements found over the years, mostly for Black. I will share some games later.

Stefan, you refer to "Englund Gambit" in your post. Kaissiber #5 however, talks about the Zilbermints Gambit.  This is  where the position above comes from.

I remember the analyses quite well, even after 10 years! In fact, I still have copies of the original analyses which I mailed you.

Quite frankly, I think that your maneuver Nd8-Nb7-Nc5 looks interesting, but will take too long. If Black moves the Nc6, White will move the Nf3, playing ...f4! with advantage. Can you give us some lines with your Nd8-Nb7-Nc5 to counter this White plan?

« Last Edit: 03/15/09 at 04:22:24 by Gambit »  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #15 - 03/14/09 at 10:47:36
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The variations arising from 4.Bf4 were quite interesting.
4.Bf4 Ng6 5.Bg3 Qe7 6.Nc3 Qb4 7.Rb1 Qa5 8.Qd5 Bb4 9.Qxa5 Bxa5. You are right, the PC software has problems in assessing pawn formations like this one, which is typical for the Englund Gambit. The analysis in Kaissiber 5 (1998), p. 37, continued: 10.e3 0-0 11.Bd3 Re8 12.Bxg6 fxg6 13.0-0 Bxc3 14.bxc3 a6 (prevents 15.Nd4 Nxe5 16.Nb5) 15.Rfd1 (so far Kaissiber 5), and now probably 15...b6 is best, for example 16.c4 Re7 17.Rd5 h6

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Black continues with Nd8-b7(e6)-c5, Bb7 etc. In a position like this (bishops on opposite colours, and White's restricted by his own pawns; Black's better piece play; White's shattered pawns on the queenside) I don't have scruples to call it "equal", no matter what Fritz & Co. say.

The main line in Kaissiber 5 (1998) was: 7.Qd2 Qxb2 8.Rb1 Qa3 9.Rb3 Qa5 10.Rb5 Qa3 11.Nd5 Qxa2 12.e6 fxe6 13.Nxc7+ Kd8 14.Nxa8 Qa1+ 15.Qd1 Qc3+ 16.Nd2 Nd4 17.e3 Nxc2+ 18.Ke2 b6 19.Bc7+ Ke8 (so far analysis by Lev Zilbermints! The next move was my proposal to improve the line for White) 20.Bb8!?

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20...Bb7 21.Nc7+ Kf7 22.Ne4 Qc4+ 23.Qd3 Nd4+ 24.Kd1 Qa4+ 25.Ke1 Bb4+ =+ 26.Rxb4 Nc2+ 27.Kd2 Nxb4 28.Nd6+ Ke7 29.Qc3 Rxb8 30.Qxg7+ Kd8 31.Nxe6+ dxe6 32.Nxb7+ Rxb7 33.Qxb7 =. Lev Zilbermints wasn't happy that the line ended only in a draw.
It wouldn't be surprising if now, ten years later, improvements would be found. But seeing the complications it may be easier for the reader to understand why I delved into these complication after 7.Qd2 and discussed the line on two full pages in Kaissiber 5.

  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #14 - 03/14/09 at 02:18:39
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It doesn't surprise me at all that no White blitz player has found this line (as far as 8.Qd2!) in the Zilbermints Gambit.  But objectively speaking I don't like the resulting positions for Black- Black is struggling to regain the pawn and White is the one who is attacking.  Yes, Black has good drawing chances, but isn't the idea of this kind of opening to generate unbalanced play?

When I looked at the line, I concluded that I preferred the positions Black got after 4...h6, with a sample continuation of 5.e4 Ng6 6.Qd5 Bb4 7.Bd2 0-0 8.0-0-0 Re8.   This position looks playable to me, Black regains the pawn, and White has an edge as the kingside attack should be faster than Black's queenside attack, but Black should have some chances.

One line which looks critical to me is 4.Bf4 Ng6 5.Bg3 (I think Black's practical chances are reasonable after 5.e3 d6 6.Bb5 Bd7) 5...Qe7 6.Nc3 Qb4 7.Rb1 Qa5 8.Qd5 Bb4 9.Qxa5 Bxa5.  White has succeeded in swapping queens and keeping the extra pawn- although the shattered pawn structure devalues the pawn plus.  Fritz assesses this position as over +1.0 of a pawn better for White, which seems excessive- it probably isn't applying enough weight to structural considerations.

Of course 7.Qd2 and 7.a3 are also critical- but they also lead to tremendous complications.
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #13 - 03/13/09 at 22:11:44
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Gambit wrote on 03/13/09 at 21:30:27:
The more analyses, the more it is clear that Black gets his pawn back.

1 d4 e5 2 de5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Nc3 Ng6 5 Bg5 Be7 6 Bxe7 Qxe7 7 Nd5 Qd8 8 Qd2 00! 9 Qg5 Nce7 10 Nxe7 Qxe7 11 Qxe7 Nxe7 12 Nd4 Ng6 ( 12 000 Ng6 13 e3 Re8 14 Rd5 c6 15 Rd5 b6 and the pawn falls) 13 Nb5 c6 =

Now instead of 12 Nd4 or 12 000, it is suggested that 12 Rd1 be played. This is unsatisfactory, since after 12...Ng6 13 g3 Re8 14 Rd5 c6 15 Rd5 b6, the pawn falls again.

14.Bh3 keeps the pawn. You end up in a double rook endgame a pawn down. Probably drawable, but certainly a white advantage. 14.Bh3 Nxe5 15.Nxe5 Rxe5 16.Bxd7 Re7 17.Bxc8 Rxc8 and white can start trying to win with Rd3 or Rd2. Black has no compensation for the pawn other then that it may be drawable.
Quote:
Let me now address the subvariation  8...00! 9 Qg5 Nce7 10 Nxe7 Qxe7 11 Qxe7 Nxe7 12 Nd4 Ng6 13 Nb5 c6 14 Nd6 which is claimed to be good for White. After 14...Nxe5! Black threatens ...Ng4, hitting the weak f2-pawn. Certainly White cannot play 15 00? Ng4! 16 Ne4 d5! which is good for Black. He must defer Castling, giving Black a critical tempo.

Thus, one  sample line might go 14 Nd6 Nxe5 15 f3 f5 16 e3 Rf6 17 000 Kf8 18 Nxc8 Rxc8 19 f4 Ng4 20 Rxd7 Rf7 21 Rxf7 Kxf7 22 Bc4 Kf6
23 Kd2 Rd8+ 24 Bd3 c5 with good chances of regaining the pawn.

Another line might go 14 Nd6 Nxe5 15 h3 f5! 16 000 Rd8 17 e3 b5 with ...Nf7 coming up.

I don't think anyone will go that far in a tournament game.

Firstly 15.0-0 is illegal. Secondly you neglect my two moves I give for white 15. e4 and 15.Rd1.
Eg 15.e4 a5 (to get the bishop and rook out)16.f4 Ng6 17.g3 and white is better to say the least. Again black may draw it, but I wouldnt want to play this as black. White's pawns are going forward towards the king (there is some benefit to not sacking them Wink)
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #12 - 03/13/09 at 21:30:27
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The more analyses, the more it is clear that Black gets his pawn back.

1 d4 e5 2 de5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Nc3 Ng6 5 Bg5 Be7 6 Bxe7 Qxe7 7 Nd5 Qd8 8 Qd2 00! 9 Qg5 Nce7 10 Nxe7 Qxe7 11 Qxe7 Nxe7 12 Nd4 Ng6 ( 12 000 Ng6 13 e3 Re8 14 Rd5 c6 15 Rd5 b6 and the pawn falls) 13 Nb5 c6 =

Now instead of 12 Nd4 or 12 000, it is suggested that 12 Rd1 be played. This is unsatisfactory, since after 12...Ng6 13 g3 Re8 14 Rd5 c6 15 Rd5 b6, the pawn falls again.

Let me now address the subvariation  8...00! 9 Qg5 Nce7 10 Nxe7 Qxe7 11 Qxe7 Nxe7 12 Nd4 Ng6 13 Nb5 c6 14 Nd6 which is claimed to be good for White. After 14...Nxe5! Black threatens ...Ng4, hitting the weak f2-pawn. Certainly White cannot play 15 00? Ng4! 16 Ne4 d5! which is good for Black. He must defer Castling, giving Black a critical tempo.

Thus, one  sample line might go 14 Nd6 Nxe5 15 f3 f5 16 e3 Rf6 17 000 Kf8 18 Nxc8 Rxc8 19 f4 Ng4 20 Rxd7 Rf7 21 Rxf7 Kxf7 22 Bc4 Kf6
23 Kd2 Rd8+ 24 Bd3 c5 with good chances of regaining the pawn.

Another line might go 14 Nd6 Nxe5 15 h3 f5! 16 000 Rd8 17 e3 b5 with ...Nf7 coming up.

I don't think anyone will go that far in a tournament game.
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #11 - 03/13/09 at 19:46:07
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Gambit wrote on 03/13/09 at 12:33:23:
Günter Amann wrote on 03/13/09 at 09:09:41:
I like this strange Zilbermints very much when i play the white pieces.

1.d4 e5? 2.de Nc6 3.Nf3 Nge7 4.Nc3 Ng6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.Be7 Qe7
6.Nd5 Qd8 7. Qd2 Ngxe5? (7....0-0 8.Qg5! exchanging the Queen and keeping an extra pawn) 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Qc3 +-
In my opinion thats all you need to know about it. Paradoxially this simple variation was not mentioned in a huge article (about 5 or 6 pages) by the Kaissibermagazine.


I analyzed this line some years ago, and found that Black had unexpected defensive resources. Herr Amann must be referring to Kaissiber #5, #6 and #10, published in 1998-1999.  I will have to search my old papers, but I am pretty sure the refutation of Amann's line is in there.

1.d4 e5  2.de Nc6 3.Nf3 Nge7 4.Nc3 Ng6 5.  Bg5 Be7 6. Bxe7 Qxe7
7. Nd5 Qd8 8. Qd2 Ngxe5?


Let's analyze:

8...00! 9 Qg5 Nce7 10 Nxe7 Qxe7 11 Qxe7 Nxe7 12 Nd4 Ng6 ( 12 000 Ng6 13 e3 Re8 14 Rd5 c6 15 Rd5 b6 and the pawn falls) 13 Nb5 c6 =

I dont think this is equal after 14.Nd6. Maybe black can hold, but I dont see much fun for him in the future.
eg 14.Nd6 Nxe4 and now 15.e4 or 15.Rd1 seems decent enough, white is going to push the kingside pawns and keep the annoying knight on d6.

Also I think 12.Rd1 with the idea g3 and Bh3 looks good for white (I think black can't take the pawn on e5 without losing the one on d7).
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #10 - 03/13/09 at 13:50:23
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Definitely some interesting stuff here. I don't think 3...Nge7 is so bad

Andrew
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #9 - 03/13/09 at 12:53:33
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All very good, but in practice, I have never faced this 4 Nc3 Ng6 5 Bg5 Be7 6 Bxe7 Qxe7 7 Nd5 Qd8 8 Qd2 line. Not even in countless blitz games. That tells you something, doesn't it?

Oh, and some people played 8 e3 here. I never see 8 Qd2 or the line you suggested.
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #8 - 03/13/09 at 12:42:50
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Günter Amann wrote on 03/13/09 at 09:09:41:
Paradoxially this simple variation was not mentioned in a huge article (about 5 or 6 pages) by the Kaissibermagazine.

Some facts:
(i) Kaissiber 5 (1998) covered 3...Nge7 on 5 pages, part of a longer article of 13 pages on 1.d4 e5. My book "Englund Gambit" had given 3...Nge7 4.Bf4 Ng6 5.Bg3 as a refutation of Nge7. I still believe that 4.Bf4 is plausible and maybe as good as 4.Nc3. You are right to say that White can do without analysis of 4.Bf4. But the text was also meant to give instructions for Black, and so the tactical mess 4.Bf4, which dominated Zilbermints' practice, could not be ignored.

(ii) According to you, "this simple variation [4.Nc3 ... 7.Qd2 ...9.Qc3 +-] was not mentioned" in my article. However, my article did have the following: "4.Nc3 Ng6 (h6!?) 5.Bg5 Be7 6.Bxe7 Qxe7 7.Nd5 (1-0, 56) Bruch - Gerstel, Ludwigshafen 1985 (thematic tournament)." Close enough, I believe. I didn't like 4...Ng6 and suggested 4...h6!? instead.

(iii) My article mentioned that Lev Zilbermints preferred to play Nge7 in blitz, continuing: "3...Nge7 seems well suited at least for this kind of chess".

(iv) The next issue, Kaissiber 6 (1998), reserved one page for two readers' reactions on 3...Nge7. Here Klaus Petri gave the tactical detail which you mention: 6...Qxe7 (on the same page 6...Ngxe7 was discussed) 7.Nd5 Qd8 8.Qd2 Ngxe5?? 9.Nxe5 Nxe5 10.Qc3 [+-]. Mr. Petri even analyzed my 4...h6!? to which he replied 5.a3 Ng6 6.Qd5 (now I'd say that 6...d6 gives Black a shade of compensation).

(v) More letters on the topic were published and discussed in Kaissiber 10 (1999), p.24f. Two readers (Oganian, Babakhanov) tried to refute our earlier analyses. They recommended 8.Qd3. In my reply, I explained why 8.Qd2! was stronger: White has the additional threat of 9.Qg5, to exchange the queens - which gambit players fear more than hell. And I gave: 8.Qd2 h6 9.Qc3 0-0 10.0-0-0 Re8 11.h4 Ngxe5 12.Nxe5 Rxe5 13.f4 Re8 14.Rd3 Kh8 15.g4 +-, when h7-h6 becomes a fatal weakness! A modern computer likes 11.g4 even more.

(vi) Kaissiber 11 (1999) published a letter by Lev Zilbermints, questioning the strength of 4.Nc3 h6 5.h4 (Oganian/Babakhanov).

(vii) In Kaissiber 12 (1999) Bent Larsen wrote that his first reaction on 3...Nge7 had been positive, thinking soething like: "probably relatively best". But he continued that his enthusiasm faded away when he found 8.Qd2!. On the "emergency solution" (Larsen) 4...h6 Larsen recommended 5.Qd3 (and agreed with LDZ that 5.h4 Ng6 6.Qd5 Qe7 7.Qe4 Qb4 wasn't dangerous).

Kaissiber wasn't misleading its readers by neglecting 4.Nc3, as you apparently suggest. Nowhere else you'll find more on 4.Nc3. In issue 10 I wrote that 4.Nc3! was a refutation of 3...Nge7. Today I am not so sure. Take Larsen's 4.Nc3 h6 5.Qd3, for example: 5...Ng6 6.a3 Bc5 7.Nd5 0-0 8.Qc3 Be7 9.Be3 d6 10.exd6 cxd6, opening the c-file. Black's strategy is dubious, but not ridiculous.
  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #7 - 03/13/09 at 12:33:23
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Günter Amann wrote on 03/13/09 at 09:09:41:
I like this strange Zilbermints very much when i play the white pieces.

1.d4 e5? 2.de Nc6 3.Nf3 Nge7 4.Nc3 Ng6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.Be7 Qe7
6.Nd5 Qd8 7. Qd2 Ngxe5? (7....0-0 8.Qg5! exchanging the Queen and keeping an extra pawn) 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Qc3 +-
In my opinion thats all you need to know about it. Paradoxially this simple variation was not mentioned in a huge article (about 5 or 6 pages) by the Kaissibermagazine.


I analyzed this line some years ago, and found that Black had unexpected defensive resources. Herr Amann must be referring to Kaissiber #5, #6 and #10, published in 1998-1999.  I will have to search my old papers, but I am pretty sure the refutation of Amann's line is in there.

1.d4 e5  2.de Nc6 3.Nf3 Nge7 4.Nc3 Ng6 5.  Bg5 Be7 6. Bxe7 Qxe7
7. Nd5 Qd8 8. Qd2 Ngxe5?


Let's analyze:

8...00! 9 Qg5 Nce7 10 Nxe7 Qxe7 11 Qxe7 Nxe7 12 Nd4 Ng6 ( 12 000 Ng6 13 e3 Re8 14 Rd5 c6 15 Rd5 b6 and the pawn falls) 13 Nb5 c6 =



  
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Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #6 - 03/13/09 at 11:22:03
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Gambit wrote on 03/13/09 at 05:45:14:
Just a simple typo, "m" instead of "n".


Read once again...
  
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