Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit! (Read 25023 times)
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #35 - 01/11/11 at 07:35:56
Post Tools
Juan Tica - Zilbermints, Ridgewood, New Jersey, 2011, went 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Nc3 h6!

Here Tica used up 2 minutes of his time. Considering this was G/10 minutes, that is a lot of time! Apparently, he was unprepared for this improvement, which I first analysed in 1994! After the game, Tica told me that 4...h6! threw out his prepared line, 4...Ng6 5 Bg5 out the window.

5 Nd5 Nxd5 6 Qxd5 Qe7

Play now resembles the Englund Gambit, 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Qe7. Of course, the differences are quite obvious. Three extra moves have not been made by either player.

7 Bd2 g6 8 Bc3 Bg7 9 e3

Here I should have played 9...b6! delaying Castling. The Qd5 will be a target for the Black pieces after 10...Bb7, 11...000. Instead, I played...

9...00 10 Bd3

I managed to win the game much later in the endgame on time. The whole point is to demonstrate that 4...h6 avoids the pesky 4...Ng6 5 Bg5 Be7 6 Bxe7 Qxe7 7 Nd5 Qd8 line!
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #34 - 12/16/10 at 15:41:58
Post Tools
You are right, 6...b6 looks reasonable.
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Hehmer
Ex Member


Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #33 - 12/16/10 at 09:19:24
Post Tools
Gambit wrote on 12/16/10 at 01:40:38:
Feuerstein has an even score versus Bobby Fischer. They played from 1950s  to 1971.

NM Arthur Feuerstein (2200) - Zilbermints (2134)
Ridgewood, New Jersey
6  December 2010
Bergen County Open, Round 5

1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6  Here Feuerstein hesitated. He had not much luck with the dubious 3 f4?!
in most of the games we played before. After 3...f6! 4 ef6 Nxf6 Black has open lines and piece development for the pawn. Hence, Arthur played
...

3 Nf3 Nge7

4 b3

I call this Larsen's Variation, on account of its similarity to 1 b3, Larsen's Opening.

4...Ng6 5 Qd5?!

Here 5...d6! is the best move. If White plays 6 ed6 Bd6, then he risks being subjected to a dangerous attack from Black's better-developed pieces.


5...Qe7 6 Bb2


Why didn't you play 6...b6? After Bb7 and O-O-O the Qd5 stands bad.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #32 - 12/16/10 at 01:40:38
Post Tools
Feuerstein has an even score versus Bobby Fischer. They played from 1950s  to 1971.

NM Arthur Feuerstein (2200) - Zilbermints (2134)
Ridgewood, New Jersey
6  December 2010
Bergen County Open, Round 5

1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6  Here Feuerstein hesitated. He had not much luck with the dubious 3 f4?!
in most of the games we played before. After 3...f6! 4 ef6 Nxf6 Black has open lines and piece development for the pawn. Hence, Arthur played
...

3 Nf3 Nge7

4 b3

I call this Larsen's Variation, on account of its similarity to 1 b3, Larsen's Opening.

4...Ng6 5 Qd5?!

Here 5...d6! is the best move. If White plays 6 ed6 Bd6, then he risks being subjected to a dangerous attack from Black's better-developed pieces.


5...Qe7 6 Bb2 Nb4 7 Qd2 Nc6 8 Qe3

Now 8...d6?!  9 ed6 Qxe3 10 fxe3 Bxd6 11 Bxg7 Rg8 12 Bf6 leads to a game where Black is two pawns down. He might be able to get one pawn back, but White will consolidate and keep the second pawn.


8...b6 9 h4 h5 10 a3 Bb7 11 Nbd2 000 12 a4

This is equal after 12...Re8 or 12...Qe6.

12...Nb4 13 000 Re8 14 Kb1 Nc6 15 Nc4 Rh6 16 Qg5 Qe6 17 g3 Be7 18 Qc1 Nce5 19 Bh3 Ng4 20 Nd4 Qf6 21 Rhf1

Instead, 21 f3! N4e5 22 Nb5! leads to a winning advantage for White.

21...Ng6-e5 22 f3 Nxc4 23 fxg4 Qg6 24 g4??

Here the immediate 24 gh5! wins a piece.

24...Nxb2 25 gh6? Last chance for advantage is 25 Qxb2 Rhh8 26 Nb5 Kb8 27 Bf5 Qc6 28 Bxd7 +-.

25...Nxd1! 26 Qxd1 Bd6 27 Nf5 gh6 28 Nxd6+ cxd6 29 Qd3 Be4 30 Qc4+ Kb8 31 Bxd7 Rd8 32 Qf7 Qg3! 33 Bb5 DRAW
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #31 - 10/26/10 at 18:40:01
Post Tools
Well, my first experiments with the 4...h6 line on Internet Chess Club seem to yield decent results.
I will post a few games later. Here is one just to give you an idea:

1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Nc3 h6 5 e4 Ng6 6 Qd5 a6 7 Be3 Qe7 8 000 Ncxe5 9 Nxe5 Qxe5 10 Qd2 c6 11 f4 Qa5 12 e5 Bb4 13 Bd4 c5 14 Be3 Bxc3 15 Qxc3 Qxc3 16 bc3 b6 17 a4 a5 18 Bb5 Ra7 19 h4 Ne7 20 g4 Ba6 21 h5 Bxb5 22 ab5 00 23 Rd6 Rb7 24 Rhd1 Rd8 25 f5 Nc8 26 R6d5 Kf8 27 g5 Ne7 28 gxh6 Nd5 29 Nd5 Rh6 30 Bh6+ Kg8 31 Bg5 Re8
32 Bf6 Kh7  33 Kd2 Rg8 34 Ke3 a4 35 Kf4 a3 36 Rd1 a2 37 Ra1 Ra7 38 c4 Rg2 0-1,  beinai (2314 ICC) - Zilbermints (2351 ICC) 10.26.2010, 3-minute rated blitz game

  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #30 - 10/25/10 at 03:36:58
Post Tools
The reason I endorsed 4...h6 is because someone in a tournament game  finally found the critical line. The game Juan Tica - Zilbermints, Ridgewood, 2010, went 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Nc3 Ng6 5 Bg5 Be7
6 Bxe7 Qxe7 7 Nd5 Qd8 8 Qd2 00 9 Qg5 Nce7! and although I managed to escape with a draw much later, clearly an improvement was needed! Then again, my opponent admitted he looked up the critical line on this website!

Conversely, if people do not know where to look, they will not find this line. This was the first game with this line in all the 17 years that I have been playing the Zilbermints Gambit.

Just saying...
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 915
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #29 - 10/24/10 at 21:45:58
Post Tools
I prefer 4...h6 too.  There was a previous thread which contained plenty of analysis of 4...h6, including some contributions of my own, but unfortunately I can't find it with the search function.

I recall concluding that Black had better practical chances than after 4...Ng6, but that objectively speaking the onus was always on Black to prove that the positions were += rather than +/-.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #28 - 10/24/10 at 13:34:28
Post Tools
Against the 'Gelb Hasenfuss' line, 4 Nc3, I prefer 4...h6! This prevents any Bg5 tricks by White that usually occur after 4...Ng6 5 Bg5 Be7 etc.

Bucker endorsed 4...h6! as a reasonable alternative.
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 915
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #27 - 10/24/10 at 11:35:56
Post Tools
I think Black's only way to get play in this line is 10...c6! (to stop Nd5 and envisaging ...b5-b4) 11.Be2 (11.0-0-0 is riskier as it "castles into the attack") b5 12.a3 (else ...b4 is irritating for White) a5.  I don't think Black equalizes here, but Black does get decent counterplay on the queenside, so it's probably += rather than +/-.

Instead White could try 7.a3 Qxb2 8.Nd5 Kd8 and now, instead of heading into the complications after 9.e6 d6 10.exf7 (White may still stand better here, but Black has reasonable practical chances) White should just develop with 9.e4, with positions strongly reminiscent of those arising from 1.d4 e5 2.dxe5 Nc6 3.Nf3 Qe7 4.Bf4 Qb4+ 5.Bd2 Qxb2 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Rb1 Qa3 8.Nd5 Ba5 9.Rb5 Bxd2+ 10.Qxd2 Kd8.  Black often wins a pawn on e5 or a3 but has to survive a strong attack on the king in the centre.  For example 9...Nce7 10.Bc4 Nxd5 11.Bxd5 Qc3+ 12.Kf1 Ke8 (12...Bxa3 13.Bxf7) and although Black is still in the game, White has good attacking chances.

In the 7.Qd2 Qxb2 8.Rb1 Qa3 line, the 9.Rb3 Qa5 10.Rb5 Qa3 11.Nd5 Qxa2 line leads to tremendous complications as discussed earlier in the thread, in which Black clearly has good practical chances, even if White objectively stands better.  White does have the alternative 9.Nd5!?, although Black seems to survive, e.g.  9...Qxa2 10.Rd1 Qb2 11.e4 (11.Nxc7+ Kd8 12.Nd5 Nb4 with counterplay) 11...Kd8 12.Be2 Bb4 13.Nxb4 Qxb4 14.c3 Qc5 15.0-0 and White has good compensation for the pawn, but I sense that Fritz 10's assessment of +1.50 for White may be somewhat over-optimistic.

Meanwhile, I think Stefan Bucker's analysis earlier in the thread confirms that Black is doing alright in the line 7.Rb1 Qa5 8.Qd5 Bb4! 9.Qxa5 Bxa5 with White's poor pawn structure offsetting the extra pawn.  All in all I think Black has reasonable chances after 4.Bf4 and that the real test of Black's opening line is 4.Nc3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #26 - 10/23/10 at 18:42:52
Post Tools
TN wrote on 10/23/10 at 06:15:37:
7...Qc5 is better but still insufficient after 8.e4 Nge5 9.Ne5 Ne5 10.Qd2 with a clear advantage for White.


Big deal. It is still a game. Material is equal and Black can probably equalize with precise play. This cannot be said about 7...Qa5?
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #25 - 10/23/10 at 06:15:37
Post Tools
7...Qc5 is better but still insufficient after 8.e4 Nge5 9.Ne5 Ne5 10.Qd2 with a clear advantage for White.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #24 - 10/23/10 at 05:41:22
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 10/22/10 at 20:13:04:
That omits mention of 7. Qc1 (7...Qa5 8. a3), which is given in the aforementioned MCO-15 as much better for White.


Don't make me laugh! I told Nick deFirmian that he was mistaken, years ago! The correct move is 7...Qc5! Now the 8 a3 trick will not work, because from the c5-square the Nc3 is attacked! Thus, 9 b4 will not work. It works on 7...Qa5? but not on 7...Qc5!

DeFirmian refused to correct the typo even after I pointed out the analytical error.

I wrote the book on Zilbermints Gambit theory, mister. I, of all people, should know how the Kopiecki Attack (6...Qb4!) is played. Of course, you can ask Edward Kopiecki himself. He lives in New York. However, Kopiecki will confirm what I said: that 7...Qc5 is the correct move!
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4904
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #23 - 10/22/10 at 20:13:04
Post Tools
That omits mention of 7. Qc1 (7...Qa5 8. a3), which is given in the aforementioned MCO-15 as much better for White.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #22 - 10/22/10 at 19:50:37
Post Tools
That might be so, TN. However, it is what was played.
Now, to answer your inquiry, 6 Nc3 Nce5?! is flawed.

After 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Bf4 Ng6 5 Bg3 Qe7 6 Nc3 and now:

6...Nce5? 7 Nxe5 Nxe5 8 Nd5! Qd6 9 Qd4! f6 10 000! with advantage.

6...Qb4! the Kopiecki Attack, proposed by New York candidate master Edward Kopiecki. Analyses is extremely deep, complex and detailed. Black hits the b2-pawn while pinning the Nc3 with the Queen.

Sample lines:

(a) 7 Qd2 Qxb2 8 Rb1 Qa3 and now;

a1) 9 Nd5 Qxa2 10 Rd1 Qb2! 11 Nc7+ Kd8

a11) 12 Nxa8?? Bb4! winning
a12) 12 Nd5      Nb4! 13 Ne3 Bc5! =+

a2)  9 Nb5 Qxa2 transposing to a1)

a3) 9 e4 Bb4! with compensation

b) 7 Rb1 Qa5 8 Qd5 Bb4! with compensation

b1) 7 Rb1 Qa5 8 a3 Bxa3! 9 Ra1 Bxb2! 10 Rxa5 Bc3+  11 Nd2 Bxa5  12 e4 Nxe5 13 Nxe5 Nxe5 with full compensation for the Queen. This is confirmed by BOOKUP 2000 computer analyses.
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: International Master Plays Zilbermints Gambit!
Reply #21 - 10/22/10 at 05:40:15
Post Tools
Gambit wrote on 10/22/10 at 03:03:17:
Brian McCarthy (2389 USCF) - Zilbermints (1937)
Novag Grand Prix
Westfield, New Jersey, USA
10 December 1994

ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT

1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Bf4 The Klein Defense, popularized by Senior Master Erez Klein.

4...Ng6 5 Bg3 Qe7 6 c3 Nce5 7 e3 d6 8 Be2 Be6 9 Nbd2 Bd5 10 Nb3 Bc6 11 Nd4 Nxf3+ 12 Bxf3 Bxf3 13 Qxf3 00 14 000 Kb8 15 Qd5 Qf6 16 Qb3 Ka8 17 Nb5
Kb8 18 Nd5 Ka8 19 Qc4 Qe7 20 Rd2 h5 21 h4 c6 22 Rhd1 d5 23 Qa4 Qc5 24 Nb3 Qb6 25 e4 Bc5 26 ed cd
27 Nxc5 Qxc5 28 Qd4 Qxd4 29 Rxd4 Ne7 30 Kb1 b5
31 a4 a6 32 ab ab 33 Rb4 Kb7 34 Rxb5+ Kc6 35 Ra5 Ra8 36 Rxa8 Rxa8 37 Be5 Nf5 38 g3 Re8 39 Bf4 Re4 40 b3? Nxh4! 41 Rh1 Ng2 42 Rxh5 Nxf4 43 gf4 Rxf4
44 Rh2 Rf3 45 Kc2 g5 46 Rg2 f6 47 Kd2 Kd6 48 Kc2
Ke5 49 b4 Kd6 50 Kd2 Kc6 51 Kc2 Kb5 52 Kd2 Kb4
53 Rg4+ Kb5 54 Rg2 DRAWN.

This game is in MCO-14 and MCO-15.


6.c3 is far too passive. White should play 6.Nc3 Nce5 7.e4 or 7.Ne5 Ne5 8.e4, in both cases with an advantage for white.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo