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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"? (Read 4285 times)
Whitlingham
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
Reply #10 - 03/06/09 at 18:42:34
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MNb wrote on 03/05/09 at 11:03:02:
That is slightly inconsistent because of 4.Be3 c6 5.Be2 or 5.Nf3.


Yes, you're right. Seems like if you want to play a delayed ...Bg7 against Be3 systems you need to be very wary of move order transpositions and possibly learn more than one variation against certain systems.

-Whit
  
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MNb
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
Reply #9 - 03/05/09 at 11:03:02
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That is slightly inconsistent because of 4.Be3 c6 5.Be2 or 5.Nf3.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Whitlingham
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
Reply #8 - 03/05/09 at 10:03:58
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I've just started reading the book. It may be excellent but, and I'm sorry to say this, my first impression isn't very good.

As mentioned I think it is weird, for lack of a better term, that a position that has been reached in 2000+ games (according to Chessbase's online db) isn't mentioned explicitly at all.

Then in game 67 I gotta wonder why 10.h3 as played in Anand-Chernin isn't mentioned. Anand as in the world champion and Chernin as maybe the number one Pirc expert in the world! Hellooo?! Is Pirc Alert required reading for this book or what?

Finally, for some reason the language in the Preface is very awkward. E.g. how about this sentence: "In the same chapter can be found the Archbishop Attack, a potent White system which will be nevertheless be new to most readers."?


JEH - thanks for the info.

pumi - I was serious. Continue to drink the Kool Aid Wink

MNb - Against the classical (4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0) I play 6...Nc6. Against the Accelerated Classical (4.Nf3 Bg7 5.h3 0-0 6.Be3) I also play 7...Nc6. Against the Argentine/150 I prefer to delay ...Bg7 in favor of ...c6.

-Whit
  
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MNb
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
Reply #7 - 03/05/09 at 01:32:49
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Whitlingham wrote on 03/04/09 at 18:56:13:
1. How should black play in order to stick to his preferred repertoire against the "normal" move order?


And what exactly is your preferred repertoire? Especially against the Classical?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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pumi
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
Reply #6 - 03/04/09 at 23:15:44
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Let's stay SERIOUS!!!

Vigus' book doesn't seem to cover , Vigus book seems to cover, Vigus book covers......

The book doesn't cover 1.h3 and 1.a3 ...and...and.....

Thank God that we have writers like this man or do it better !!


  
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JEH
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and Whit
Reply #5 - 03/04/09 at 19:43:26
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Whitlingham wrote on 03/04/09 at 18:56:13:
Thanks for the replies. I realize that this move order may not be the strongest/most flexible for White. My main points/questions were these:

1. How should black play in order to stick to his preferred repertoire against the "normal" move order?
2. Does this mean that I have to study both Part A (partially at least) and Part B in the 150 attack chapter. Seems like it.

Seems weird to me that a Pirc book with almost 400 pages doesn't cover this move order?!

-Whit


I don't have an answer for 1. and I've been playing this rubbish for over 20 years. I play with and without early Bg7 and sometimes c6 vs the classical and sometimes Nc6 and sometimes a6 and so I'm not bothered about getting out move ordered into something unfamiliar.

And yes, you'll need parts A and B, but I think it's usefully anyway to have both move orders at your disposal. Study all of Chapter 10. Then study it again! The 150 attack has been so hyped now it's well worth it.

A bit harsh on James to knock the missing transposition in such an excellent book. I didn't find it difficult to work out for myself.

P.S. Ronen "Zohan" Har-Zvi is doing a series of videos on the 150 on ICC, although he got the origin of the name wrong.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Whitlingham
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
Reply #4 - 03/04/09 at 18:56:13
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Thanks for the replies. I realize that this move order may not be the strongest/most flexible for White. My main points/questions were these:

1. How should black play in order to stick to his preferred repertoire against the "normal" move order?
2. Does this mean that I have to study both Part A (partially at least) and Part B in the 150 attack chapter. Seems like it.

Seems weird to me that a Pirc book with almost 400 pages doesn't cover this move order?!

-Whit
  
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
Reply #3 - 03/04/09 at 11:24:06
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Quote:
And yes, there are other options after 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be3 as well, eg 5...0-0 6.Qd2 Bg4


If i remember correctly 7.Ng5 is Summerscale's "the refutation" of this line.



  

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MNb
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
Reply #2 - 03/03/09 at 21:35:26
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One might argue that the early Nf3 limits White's options as well. At the other hand Black just can play 4.Nf3 c6 eventually 5...Bg7 (but not after 5.Be3). This has the obvious problem that Black cannot play 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 0-0 6.Be2 Bg4/Nc6 anymore.
And yes, there are other options after 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be3 as well, eg 5...0-0 6.Qd2 Bg4 and 6...Nbd7 idea 7.Bh6 e5.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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JEH
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Re: Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and Whit
Reply #1 - 03/03/09 at 21:34:07
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It's in the 4. Be3 chapter, Game 67, via transposition.

Generally once Nf3 has been played, Bg7 is fine. I like the  plan with a6/b5/Nc6

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Whitlingham
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Missing move order in "Pirc in Black and White"?
03/03/09 at 21:05:54
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Vigus' book doesn't seem to cover the 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be3 move order. I assume 5...c6 is the standard move, transposing into other lines?

I like to delay ...Bg7 against Be3 setups but with this move order it seems like I've been "tricked" into playing Bg7!? I.e. it looks like I need to study both Part A (partially at least) and Part B in the 150 attack chapter.

Or maybe I'm just confused?

-Whit
  
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