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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white (Read 11649 times)
Stefan Buecker
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #18 - 04/08/09 at 03:49:39
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MNb wrote on 04/01/09 at 02:12:20:
So no Brand-new KG either?


My experiences with publishing companies were often frustrating ("no photos, our books are printed on cheap paper"). But the series of articles on the KG in my mag will be continued.
  
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MNb
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #17 - 04/01/09 at 02:12:20
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So no Brand-new KG either?
  

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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #16 - 03/31/09 at 21:20:51
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Hi nyoke,
This seems to become the rule ... years ago I lent my own hand-copy of Der Geier to a man who never returned it. Btw, used copies of The Vulture are available from bookfinder.com. - At the moment I don't have the time for a new Vulture book, but the main lines were covered in articles on ChessCafe or in Kaissiber.
  
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nyoke
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #15 - 03/31/09 at 17:54:47
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Stefan, your book is nowhere to be found anymore (and I don't remember who I lent it to...) > Is there a new edition underway ?
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #14 - 03/29/09 at 21:06:14
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MatrixX wrote on 03/09/09 at 19:53:19:
[...]get an advantage against 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? [...] 3.c5 or 3.b4 seem quite interesting.

So: what's your favourite line against it, and: do you think you get advantage with your lines?

In analogy to my Vulture/Hawk/Woozle against 1.d4 I also studied ways to establish an advantage for White after 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4. In Der Geier (1986) and The Vulture (1989) the last chapter covers these "Penguin" attempts. That name ... well... I thought that these reversed birds, with an additional tempo, should be more respectable (= serious looking) than the black versions...

The main systems were: 3.c5 ("Penguin Hawk"), 3. g3 c5 4.Ne5 ("Eagle") and 3.Rg1 ("Penguin"), with some analysis. I know my nomenclature is horrible. For systematic reasons, the Eagle should be "Vulture Penguin", then I had a "Woozle Penguin", but it was incorrect, so the name was dropped. The Penguin was originally the "Penguin Penguin". The German "Habichdpinguin" was translated to "Penguin Hawk", instead of "Hawk Penguin". Don't ask me why.

The British Chess Magazine 10/2000 has Gary Lane's article "Call my Bluff", with Grunberg - Rahman (3.c5; 1-0, 22). Kaissiber 16 (2001) studies the same game and discusses also Gabriel - Kortschnoi, Zurich 1999 (1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4 3.b4 f6 4.e3 e5 5.c5; 0-1, 32), suggesting some improvements for White.
  
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MatrixX
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #13 - 03/11/09 at 17:32:09
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Yeah that's probably the mainline. I had 8.Be2 in mind. With 8...Nf5 9.0-0 c6 10.g4 but Ne7 is definetly the critical respond to this variation
  

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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #12 - 03/11/09 at 15:17:28
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MatrixX wrote on 03/11/09 at 14:06:27:
What do you think of 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4 3.e3 Nc6 4.exd4!? Nxd4 5.Nxd4 Qxd4 6.Nc3 with the idea of playing d3, Le3, Le2, 0-0 and d4! at the right moment


You will perhaps know that 4. ed "!?" is the main line, with theory going back many decades.  Playing just as you suggest, the question would seem to be, what do you have in mind after 4...Nxd4 5. Nxd4 Qxd4 6. Nc3 e5 7. d3 Ne7 8. Be3 Qd8 9. Be2 Nf5?
  
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #11 - 03/11/09 at 14:06:27
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What do you think of 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4 3.e3 Nc6 4.exd4!? Nxd4 5.Nxd4 Qxd4 6.Nc3 with the idea of playing d3, Le3, Le2, 0-0 and d4! at the right moment
  

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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #10 - 03/11/09 at 10:11:52
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The DW books coverage of 1 nf3 d5 2 c4 d4 etc is a chapter covering an interesting idea for white in the main line reversed benoni stuff. In general that probably is the thing to play. Maybe no real theoretical advantage but unbalanced enough.

Also some general coverage of 2 .. d4 from a black perspective in beating unusual chess openings.

The problem with the lost tempo in 3 e3 Nc6 4 b4 is that there's no black knight on f6 so e5(e4) ideas are just more effective Sad (Qh4+, no tempo gain etc.). So you have to go ed instead and thats never going to be especially dangerous.
  
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #9 - 03/11/09 at 04:12:33
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I couldn't find a chapter in the Table of Contents either, although it's possible that a mention of it is made in one of the Reti chapters for the sake of completeness. I ordered the DW book some days ago, so when it arrives I can confirm whether it mentions 2...d4 or not.

Personally I think that 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4 3.g3 Nc6 4.Bg2 e5 5.d3 Nf6 6.0-0 a5 (After other moves I think White is slightly better, although I am aware that this is probably a minority view), 7.Na3!? offers chances of an advantage. I haven't been able to find a clear route to an advantage against 3...c5 either, although Black certainly has to know his theory quite well to claim equality.

@MartinC

Palliser's coverage of 2...d4 for Black was generally quite solid, although I found a few ideas for White that offer him a slight edge.
« Last Edit: 03/11/09 at 10:38:00 by TN »  

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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #8 - 03/10/09 at 21:54:02
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Can anyone tell, which variations (ore games) exactly are recommended either by Eric Schillers 'Hypermoder Openig Repertoire for White' within 3.b4 or by Mihai Grünberg in SOS 2 within 3.c5.

@ Unownasofyet: I unfortunately haven't this DW but looked at the list of contents. So far i couldn't find a chapter covering the 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4
  

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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #7 - 03/10/09 at 21:41:18
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I would have thought so. But if you check it out, the reversed benoni seems to inspire a lot of fear....
  
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #6 - 03/10/09 at 19:58:27
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nyoke wrote on 03/10/09 at 19:43:08:
Theory clearly sucks. Or how do you explain all this ? Black -already a tempo down- can afford to waste another tempo on d4. So the space-gaining is even better for black than it is for white ?

I'm beginning to consider this opening (the Nyoke) 1. Nf3, d5 2. Ng1


Huh?  1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 d4 is generally thought to lead to equality (/unclarity/compensation), while 1. d4 c5 2. d5 Nf6 seems most often thought to lead to +=.  Not a very surprising state of affairs, I would submit.
  
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nyoke
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #5 - 03/10/09 at 19:43:08
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Theory clearly sucks. Or how do you explain all this ? Black -already a tempo down- can afford to waste another tempo on d4. So the space-gaining is even better for black than it is for white ?

I'm beginning to consider this opening (the Nyoke) 1. Nf3, d5 2. Ng1
  
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Re: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4!? searching advantage for white
Reply #4 - 03/10/09 at 10:06:31
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Not so easy to find so much for white here.

I'd rather like 3 e3 or b4 to work. Sadly 3 e3 Nc6 seems rather effective at equalising. There's even a tactical reason (Qh4+ still being on iirc) meaning that 4 b4 is less effective than the tempo down black equivalent.

3 b4 is more interesting but you do need something against black going c5/f6/e5 etc.
  
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