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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kill the KID (Read 104391 times)
TN
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #145 - 09/28/09 at 21:28:38
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jitb wrote on 09/28/09 at 18:07:42:
Hi,

Maybe its a littlebit of topic, but why do all KID players seem to have Rybka instead of Fritz? I know that Fritz values material more than Rybka. Is that the difference?

Thanks


Presumably because Rybka is much higher rated than Fritz, has three engines ('normal' engine, Dynamic and Human) and more analysis features (e.g. Monte Carlo analysis). Fritz 12 is due to be released on October 7, but I would be very surprised if it competed with Rybka 3 in either playing strength or analysis.
  

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jitb
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #144 - 09/28/09 at 18:07:42
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Hi,

Maybe its a littlebit of topic, but why do all KID players seem to have Rybka instead of Fritz? I know that Fritz values material more than Rybka. Is that the difference?

Thanks
  
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gewgaw
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #143 - 09/19/09 at 11:07:15
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IMJohnCox wrote on 09/18/09 at 23:49:32:
I'd just like to say that I saw this book today and while the lines in it aren't my cup of tea it's clearly a labour of love and the sort of book to inspire people, help them score more points, etc. A book which is trying to make a difference, the sort we need more of.

I do just wonder how long this kind of thing can go on though. How many more rooms there are for us to go into, in Anand's phrase. When you see people convinced that their lines are best for both sides up to move 30, it's a bit depressing really, especially if they're anything like right.


no worry, just wait for rybka 4/5/6 and the story goes on
  

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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #142 - 09/19/09 at 09:27:16
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But classical KID is an opening where the real fight starts at move 18 or so. Therefore you can analyse very deep into the middlegame.
  
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #141 - 09/18/09 at 23:49:32
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I'd just like to say that I saw this book today and while the lines in it aren't my cup of tea it's clearly a labour of love and the sort of book to inspire people, help them score more points, etc. A book which is trying to make a difference, the sort we need more of.

I do just wonder how long this kind of thing can go on though. How many more rooms there are for us to go into, in Anand's phrase. When you see people convinced that their lines are best for both sides up to move 30, it's a bit depressing really, especially if they're anything like right.
  
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #140 - 09/17/09 at 07:01:59
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Ametanoitos wrote on 09/15/09 at 17:38:01:
I had the chance to attend a nice lecture of a local expert on the 4PA from the Black side. His main line was 9...Nbd7 and he made astrong case for it presenting nice lines full of energy for Black. The only time i watched this move was a long time ago in the Ward's modern Benoni DVD. He mentioned also a nice idea of Watson's after 10.e5 (the main line) 10...Ne8 which could be an interesting alternative to the messy 10...dxe5.

All his lines seem nice when i put them in Rybka so my question is what ideas does Semkov has here? I don't have the book but i would be interested to discuss these analysis of the local expert and compare it to the book's.

Actually he does not go in for 10.e5. I did bring up Watson's recommendations before (page 6 of the discussion) and I hope you'll get some more constructive answers than I did.
Bonsai wrote on 05/18/09 at 18:13:03:
Markovich wrote on 05/18/09 at 12:45:25:
But as to what sources were consulted, I'm not sure that's strictly relevant, since the lines considered by Semkov are either wholly original or are considered either unimportant by existing theory.  This is a work of original analysis akin to Monson's book on the Belgrade, though not as dense.

Also taken as a whole it is a complete repertoire, and so far I have found no obvious omissions of important Black ideas.  In fact he even says how he thinks White should treat the Modern and Old Indian.

Well, as far as I can see there's nothing on Watson's 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 O-O 6. Nf3 c5 7. d5 e6 8. Be2 exd5 9. cxd5 Nbd7 10. O-O Re8 11. Qc2 Qe7, there's nothing about Watson's 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 O-O 6. Nf3 c5 7. d5 e6 8. Be2 exd5 9. cxd5 Qe7.

Watson's alternative recommendation 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 O-O 6. Nf3 c5 7. d5 e6 8. Be2 exd5 9. cxd5 Bg4 10. O-O Nbd7 11. h3 Bxf3 12. Bxf3 Rb8 is only covered with a brief "transposes to another line", when it is at least not 100% clear to me that the transposition has to occur after 13.g4, as black could have some extra options.

I did find Watson's ideas pretty sensible looking, so it seems obvious enough to taken them seriously.
  
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #139 - 09/15/09 at 17:38:01
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I had the chance to attend a nice lecture of a local expert on the 4PA from the Black side. His main line was 9...Nbd7 and he made astrong case for it presenting nice lines full of energy for Black. The only time i watched this move was a long time ago in the Ward's modern Benoni DVD. He mentioned also a nice idea of Watson's after 10.e5 (the main line) 10...Ne8 which could be an interesting alternative to the messy 10...dxe5.

All his lines seem nice when i put them in Rybka so my question is what ideas does Semkov has here? I don't have the book but i would be interested to discuss these analysis of the local expert and compare it to the book's.
  
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #138 - 08/24/09 at 01:22:15
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^Further to that, I see some reviews are turning up for this book now - very positive. Here is one on Silman's site, by Rotella:

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_gst_wrtrs/Kills_KID_1.html
  
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #137 - 08/16/09 at 01:39:19
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Markovich wrote on 08/07/09 at 13:10:00:
Also, rip-roaring, open chess may not be to the taste of many who like Black's side of the ultra-closed Mar del Plata.

Having recently played in a tournament where 4 out of 5 games were KID's against me, I decided to buy this book. Your point above is IMO bang on, the KID players I know aren't going to like these positions with an opened up centre with white firing away with heavy pieces. It is not for faint of heart white players either - few slow endgames a pawn up here, not about positional queenside pressure like so many KID lines. This is all about using whites tempo / space to fight to the death through the middle in the middle game - a courageous way to play chess (esp. given it is for d4 players).

Reading this book, there is quite a bit to learn / memorize (as the lines are not always intuitive), but is manageable, and I have more time to learn it than a KID player does (who needs to stay on top of all the other variations). The beauty of these lines is that many are forcing - one mistake, and black is doomed to an inferior position with no easy way to "wing it".

I think KIL KID is a wonderful book - it inspires a lot of confidence, and while it is no doubt not perfect (no opening, or opening book, is), it is perfect enough IMO, that a lot of black KID players are going to be in a tooth and nail struggle just to stay on the board, rather than trying to expand into and bash away at my king. I couldn't have asked for more - great book, thanks Semkov.
  
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #136 - 08/07/09 at 13:10:00
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GabrielGale wrote on 08/07/09 at 01:53:38:
I don't have Semkov's book and therefore cannot tell how the game compares.


I have Semkov's book, though not handy, and 7.Bd3 is indeed his recommendation.  Personally, just because of 7.Bd3, I think that 6...Na6 against the 4PA is not as good as 6...c5.

You know, the deep theory of 6...c5 7.d5 e6 8.Be2 exd5 9.cxd5 Re8 fails to support any claim of White advantage (the jury is still out on Semkov's interesting ideas).  It's just that it is all so complicated, and White has so many options at various stages, that keeping up with it all can be a major challenge for a KID player. From this point of view, the 4PA can be seen as a practical weapon more than a theoretical one.  The deep complexity of Black's best line is what discourages many Blacks from taking it up.

Also, rip-roaring, open chess may not be to the taste of many who like Black's side of the ultra-closed Mar del Plata.
  

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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #135 - 08/07/09 at 01:53:38
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New 4PA game from the current Brits Champs (annotations by IM Malcolm Pein):

S Williams - M Hebden

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f4 0-0 6.Nf3 Na6 7.Bd3 e5 8.fxe5 dxe5 9.d5 c6 10.0-0 Nc5
(10...cxd5 11.cxd5 Ne8 12.Be3 Nd6 is another line)
11.Bc2 cxd5 12.cxd5 b6
(12...Ne8 looks better, Black's knight never gets into the game)
13.b4 Nb7 14.Bg5 Qd6 15.a3 Bd7 16.Bd3!
(16.Ba4 b5!=)
16...Rfc8
(16...Nc5 17.Bxf6 Bxf6 18.Bb5 a6 19.Bxd7 Nxd7 20.Rc1 with a positional advantages of a passed d5 pawn and superior minor pieces)
17.Rc1 a5 18.Qb3 axb4 19.axb4 Nh5
(19...Qb8 20.Qb2 Nh5 21.Bb5)
20.Nb5 Qf8
(20...Bxb5 21.Bxb5 and Rc6)
21.Nc7! Rab8 22.Ba6 Nf4
(22...Qd6 23.Nb5 Qf8 24.Rxc8 Bxc8 25.Be3 Qd8 26.Na7 but 25...Nd6 resists)
23.Bxf4 exf4 24.e5 Bg4 25.d6 Rd8
(25...Bxf3 26.Qxf3 wins the Nb7)
26.Ng5 Rd7
(26...Bxe5 27.Nxf7 Qxf7 28.Bc4)
27.Rxf4 Nxd6 28.exd6 Qxd6 29.Rxf7 Rxf7 30.Qxf7+ Kh8 31.Bc4 Qf6 32.Ne8 1-0

IM Pein said he was intrigued to find out what Williams would play as White since both Williams and Hebden were KID afficianados. And Williams chose the 4PA and won!

I don't have Semkov's book and therefore cannot tell how the game compares.
  

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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #134 - 08/05/09 at 14:44:47
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GabrielGale wrote on 07/03/09 at 23:06:05:
Giri, Anish - Nijboer, Friso
Intomart GfK Open Hilversum, 2009
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f4 c5 6.d5 O-O 7.Nf3 e6 8.Be2 exd5 9.cxd5 Bg4 10.O-O Nbd7 11.h3 Bxf3 12.Bxf3 Ne8 13.g4 Nc7 14.g5 b5 15.h4 b4 16.Ne2 Nb5 17.Kg2 c4 18.Rb1 Qa5 19.h5 Qxa2 20.Be3 Rfe8 21.hxg6 hxg6 22.Rh1 Rab8 23.Kg3 c3 24.bxc3 Nxc3 25.Nxc3 bxc3 26.Ra1 Qc4 27.Ra4 Rb4 28.Rxa7 Nc5 29.Bxc5 Qxc5 30.Qa1 c2 31.Re7 Rxe7 32.Qa8+ Bf8 33.Rh8+ Kxh8 34.Qxf8+ Kh7 35.Qxe7 Qd4 36.Bh5 Rb3+ 37.Kh4 Qf2+ 0-1

If somebody bothered to buy my book, he would have noted that I recommend 17 h5!, leaving the King on g1. This is a crucial tempo as I try to prove on about three pages. It is a pity that I spent weeks on that position, but things never came to it in the actual game as White deviated first.
  
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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #133 - 07/04/09 at 02:46:32
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Now Top Notch, does that wish for the revival of 4-Ps Attack spring from a more self-interested motive? I seem to remember you posting that you wish to see more of it from the black side ... Grin Grin
  

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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #132 - 07/04/09 at 01:58:12
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GabrielGale wrote on 07/03/09 at 23:06:05:
Giri, Anish - Nijboer, Friso
Intomart GfK Open Hilversum, 2009
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f4 c5 6.d5 O-O 7.Nf3 e6 8.Be2 exd5 9.cxd5 Bg4 10.O-O Nbd7 11.h3 Bxf3 12.Bxf3 Ne8 13.g4 Nc7 14.g5 b5 15.h4 b4 16.Ne2 Nb5 17.Kg2 c4 18.Rb1 Qa5 19.h5 Qxa2 20.Be3 Rfe8 21.hxg6 hxg6 22.Rh1 Rab8 23.Kg3 c3 24.bxc3 Nxc3 25.Nxc3 bxc3 26.Ra1 Qc4 27.Ra4 Rb4 28.Rxa7 Nc5 29.Bxc5 Qxc5 30.Qa1 c2 31.Re7 Rxe7 32.Qa8+ Bf8 33.Rh8+ Kxh8 34.Qxf8+ Kh7 35.Qxe7 Qd4 36.Bh5 Rb3+ 37.Kh4 Qf2+ 0-1

It is replayable on Chessvibes http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/krasenkow-and-spoelman-lead-after-round-6-hilv...

@Bibs, "thanks" for Computer search 101. Great stuff. Ever consider a career as a teacher? I am sure your students will love you and your so very English sense of humour (and "rightness").

BTW, if it is too much of hassle, you really should not trouble yourself and burn those calories by actually lifting your fingers to type and oh! exercise those neurons (or as that quintessential English concoction of a detective, Hercule Poirot, love to say, those leetle grey cells) as well. Seriously, you don't have to reply and no one would ever think the less of you.

As said before, much appreciated for tracking down the link to the game. And suddenly Parker-Radjabov gains so much more significance than it ever did before like those 5-minute celebrities.


Thanks for posting that game.

Could it be that the 4 Pawns Attack is due for a revival, I certainly hope so. Or perhaps Chess Stars has a Killed by The KID project already in the pipeline. Wink

Tops Smiley
« Last Edit: 07/04/09 at 03:33:38 by TopNotch »  

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Re: Kill the KID
Reply #131 - 07/04/09 at 00:19:06
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As far as I know it's been accepted for at least several decades that Black should keep things fluid against the Benko Variation, i.e. he shouldn't play 11...f4 or 11...fg.  Possibly some of the people who played those moves would have done better with time to think.  
  
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