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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick". (Read 15424 times)
kylemeister
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #29 - 04/09/09 at 20:17:09
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It's my impression that 1. e4 c5 2. c3 e5 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. d4 (instead of the preferred 4. Bc4) cd (5. cd ed) has long been considered equal or unclear.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #28 - 04/09/09 at 19:24:08
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TN wrote on 03/31/09 at 10:28:54:
@TimS

4.c3 is not an improved Morra Gambit, since most of Black's critical replies against the Morra involve the move ...a6 at some point; 4...dc3 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nf3 d6 is one example and my view is that Black has good chances of neutralising White's initiative in this line.

@RubenKuijper

That is indeed an option, although 4.c3 dc3 5.Nc3 is a much-improved Morra Gambit because Black has a backward d-pawn and White has the d5-outpost, which should offer him excellent compensation, and maybe an objective advantage (I am not an expert on the Morra since as Black I usually play 2.d4 cd4 3.c3 Nf6 or 3...d3 for practical reasons).

@Novosibirsk

Objectively the 3.d4 cd4 4.Bb5 'trick' seems harmless, although I think it is a good choice for games with a faster time-control (i.e. 60+10 and faster).


Regarding the variation 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.Nf3 e5!? 4.c3, Black also has the option of 4...Nc6 and if 5.cxd4 then I think 5...d5 might be playable.  If I remember correctly this variation and 4.Bc4 (instead of 4.c3) were discussed by Stefan Buecker in his Der Geier by way of 1.d4 c5 2.e4.
  
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #27 - 04/07/09 at 01:16:35
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RdC wrote on 04/01/09 at 16:50:04:
Just sacrificing the e-pawn has been tried a few times. 5 0-0 Nxe4 6 Qxd4 Nf6 7 Re1

There have been some recent games by the young English player Phil Makepeace in this line.


My opponents have only gone down the above line on a couple of occasions. One game of note is Makepeace (2012) - Apetrei (2183), 4NCL 2007/8, where my long-term plan of exploiting the dark squares while keeping black's light-squared bishop penned in worked well eventually, though black's play was far from perfect. (And I definitely should have played on with Qxf7 in the final position, Na4-c5 is coming very quickly.)

I started to play 4. Bc4 in the first place because I was in the middle of learning about 6. Bg5 Najdorfs and wanted a derivative alternative in the meantime. Of those published games* where black did not grab the e pawn, Makepeace - Hamblin was fun while it lasted while Makepeace - Thornton reverted to a Sozin. And for the sadistic amongst you, Makepeace - Lobo was a weary Round 11 miniature.

*On chesslive.de
  
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #26 - 04/05/09 at 09:50:50
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kylemeister
1. e4 c5 2. d4 cd 3. c3 dc 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 d6 6. Bc4 a6 7. 0-0 Nf6 8. Qe2 (considered a mistake by Ken Smith) Bg4 9. Rd1 is better for Black, I claim (though I prefer 9...e6 to Smith's 9...Bxf3).

Against 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cd 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. Qe2 with the idea of 0-0, Rd1 and c3, Black should presumably be able to reach the above line, or maybe get an even better version of it.

MNb
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.Nf3 d6 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.Qe2 Nc6 6.c3/6.0-0 Bg4 and now what?

These are good lines for Black.
Graham Burgess in Winning With The Smith-Morra Gambit recommended 8.b4, rather than 8.Qe2, in the first line above. That's not available in my move order with the Delayed Morra.
But after 5.Qe2 Nc6 in MNb's line, my score was +7 =1 -1. Just two games continued 6.c3 Bg4 (+1 =1 -0) and three continued 6.0-0 Bg4 (+2 =0 -1). The point is that Blacks were presumably being taken out of their known anti-Morra defences. They were getting in lines that were objectively at least as good for Black, but I had much more experience of the resulting positions.
I found the Delayed Morra was a good surprise weapon (at the time I was playing mostly weekend tournaments and league chess where opponents had little warning of whom they were playing and so could not prepare). However, on reviewing my results more closely, I found I did better when the gambit was declined than when it was accepted. Accordingly, I switched to the c3 Sicilian, thinking I was effectively getting a Morra Declined. My results deteriorated. Why? I believe it was because Blacks were getting the version they wanted (...Nf6, ...d5 or ...e6) instead of ending up in an unfamiliar Morra Declined.
These days I mostly play in international tournaments where opponents have up to 18 hours to prepare for each game. The Delayed Morra would quickly lose any surprise value. Instead I play Bb5(+) systems and the KIA against the Siclian, getting good results. If my results were not satisfactory, I would happily play the Delayed Morra when surprise was still a factor, eg in county matches, in the first rounds of international tournaments where the draw is done at the last minute, and in repairings (rare in Europe but common in Britain, although don't mention it to Nigel Short).
  
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #25 - 04/03/09 at 09:01:59
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4.dxc5 Nxe4 5.exd6 Nc6! is a critical test for 3...Nf6, i think black can get a decent position, but its not very typical sicilian

4.Nc3 cxd4 5.Qxd4 a6 6.Bg5 is just a bad version of the classical for white, since after Nc6 7.Qd2 e6 white moved 2 times with queen and N is f3, where he blocks the important f-pawn, so white will need another tempo for Nd4

6.Nd5!? is really interesting and was justed by zvjanginsev with success against safarli in 2009, after Nc6 7.Nxf6+ gxf6 8.Qe3 the position seems to me easier to play for white and its not the thing, you wanna play as a najdorf player
  

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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #24 - 04/02/09 at 11:34:13
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flaviddude wrote on 03/29/09 at 01:33:41:
I always play 3..Nf6 which is so as to take the sting out of the Qxd4 lines since after 4. Nc3 white cannot set up an ersatz Maroczi Bind with a subsequent c4.  

I believe dragon and Nadjorf players should always follow this move order.


I am toying with the idea to use this move order but what about tries like 4.dc5: Ne4: 5.ed6: or 4.Nc3 cd4: 5.Qd4: a6 6.Bg5 or 6.Nd5!?

Is this really more convinient for black than the Hungarian or the Prins variation?

Are there any threads on this?
  
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #23 - 04/02/09 at 02:29:43
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1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.Nf3 d6 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.Qe2 Nc6 6.c3/6.0-0 Bg4 and now what?
  

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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #22 - 04/01/09 at 17:48:03
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1. e4 c5 2. d4 cd 3. c3 dc 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 d6 6. Bc4 a6 7. 0-0 Nf6 8. Qe2 (considered a mistake by Ken Smith) Bg4 9. Rd1 is better for Black, I claim (though I prefer 9...e6 to Smith's 9...Bxf3).

Against 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cd 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. Qe2 with the idea of 0-0, Rd1 and c3, Black should presumably be able to reach the above line, or maybe get an even better version of it.
  
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #21 - 04/01/09 at 17:00:41
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RdC wrote on 04/01/09 at 16:50:04:
Quote:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 [traditionally, for example in a booklet I have by Ken Smith, it's said you can't play a delayed Morra against this move, but you can!] 3.d4 cxd4 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.Qe2


Just sacrificing the e-pawn has been tried a few times. 5 0-0 Nxe4 6 Qxd4 Nf6 7 Re1

There have been some recent games by the young English player Phil Makepeace in this line.

Interesting - I need to look at that
  
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #20 - 04/01/09 at 16:50:04
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Quote:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 [traditionally, for example in a booklet I have by Ken Smith, it's said you can't play a delayed Morra against this move, but you can!] 3.d4 cxd4 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.Qe2


Just sacrificing the e-pawn has been tried a few times. 5 0-0 Nxe4 6 Qxd4 Nf6 7 Re1

There have been some recent games by the young English player Phil Makepeace in this line.
  
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TimS
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #19 - 04/01/09 at 16:35:18
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The e4-pawn will usually get protected by the queen, eg (I'm doing this in my head, so apologies for any mistakes) 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 [traditionally, for example in a booklet I have by Ken Smith, it's said you can't play a delayed Morra against this move, but you can!] 3.d4 cxd4 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.Qe2 with 0-0, Rd1 and c3 to follow, but not necessarily in that order. Clearly it also works against 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 and 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 and, as already discussed, against 2...a6. Other issues can arise that don't normally arise in the Morra, but the bottom line is that quite a few Blacks will already be out of their preferred anti-Morra set-up.
  
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #18 - 04/01/09 at 14:18:49
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Could be the case against some Sicilian set-ups, though usually Black can 'force' an early Nc3, else either White's Pe4 gets threatened or the d5-break becomes a serious possibility..

but I'm definitely interested in some of these deferred set-ups for White, if there are good practical chances for Black to play suboptimally.
  

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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #17 - 04/01/09 at 13:41:52
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Sorry - haven't got any games with me. But White by delaying c3 until move five, six or later, leaves Black in a quandary, at least if Black has a special system against the Morra, eg the Siberian Trap or lines with ...Nge7. It's often not possible to keep open the option of playing your favourite systems against the Open and the Morra
  
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chk
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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #16 - 04/01/09 at 13:22:52
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I thought most Blacks have a line prepared against the deferred c3 (Alapin), too (at least I do & all anti-sics repertoire books give options against these lines).

e.g. I opt for 2. ... d6 and have prepared 1 line against the Morra & Alapin proper, 1 more against the deferred Alapin and 1 line against the Moscow (Bb5+). The Moscow and deferred Alapin may also transpose to each other if White chooses to.

Especially against the deferred c3 lines, since I will again play 2. ... d6, play is usually similar to the Open Sic approach. So, I don't quite see the point here - is there an example of the practical merits of your approach?
  

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Re: A Bb5 Moscow sicilian "trick".
Reply #15 - 04/01/09 at 11:20:22
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Back in the days when the Morra was my only line against the Sicilian, I always started 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.Nf3 or 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 xxx 3.d4, the idea being to keep opponents guessing as to my intentions. Most Blacks have just one line against the Morra, and it doesn't always co-ordinate well with what they play against Open variations.
  
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