Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What does White reply against the Berlin? (Read 16488 times)
JonathanB
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 449
Location: London
Joined: 11/17/07
Gender: Male
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #12 - 05/12/11 at 10:00:30
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 05/12/11 at 09:45:54:
4.d3 is a move to be taken seriously, and Kramnik himself admitted as much - he felt if Kasparov had went in this direction it would have changed the nature of the whole London match.


Well yes - and K just got turned over by Radjabov with 4. d3 in the Candidates' matches (not that I consider 4 games to be a match really, but that's another matter).

Still, I think that 4. d3 is one of those moves that can be dangerous if White is doing it deliberately by which I mean playing it with the intention of going down a specific line.  If they're just doing it on general grounds ("my e-pawn is attacked, I better defend it") then I think Black will be fine.
  

www.streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.com  "I don't call you f**k face" - GM Nigel Short.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2915
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #11 - 05/12/11 at 09:45:54
Post Tools
4.d3 is a move to be taken seriously, and Kramnik himself admitted as much - he felt if Kasparov had went in this direction it would have changed the nature of the whole London match.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JonathanB
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 449
Location: London
Joined: 11/17/07
Gender: Male
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #10 - 05/12/11 at 09:37:13
Post Tools
Playslikefish wrote on 05/11/11 at 18:13:29:
Reading through this thread it seems that at under 2000 the mainline Berlin Endgame is rare. Does not that make the Berlin a pretty reasonable try for black at this level?


That's my experience yes.  For a start OTB 3. Bb5 is not the most popular move sub-2000.  In online blitz games where I've been playing weakish opposition and trying the Berlin quite a bit I find the line mentioned in the original post is the most popular continuation.

Also, I find that when people do go for the ending they don't know what they're doing and allow me to reach a rook an opposite coloured bishop ending (which our Berlin Lord JC calls the most favourable type of ending you can get as Black)

All in all, I think you're completely right - the Berlin is a good try for sub 2000s.
  

www.streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.com  "I don't call you f**k face" - GM Nigel Short.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Playslikefish
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 22
Joined: 12/05/09
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #9 - 05/11/11 at 18:13:29
Post Tools
Reading through this thread it seems that at under 2000 the mainline Berlin Endgame is rare. Does not that make the Berlin a pretty reasonable try for black at this level?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #8 - 05/10/11 at 19:06:39
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 05/10/11 at 10:03:16:
trw wrote on 04/27/11 at 18:51:41:
couldn't agree more! Everytime I see 5. Re1 or 4. d3 I smile and I know I made the right opening choice. It is just encouragement for me to keep playing the Berlin. And why not? At worst black is equal and at best he's better! Surely, this would start converting players to the Berlin. Cool


You've a bit of an optimistic way of looking at things there.


Oh, I don't think so.  My view is that if White doesn't play 4.O-O  Nxe4 5.d4, he isn't White any more.  It's a game of chess, but White just tosses the advantage of the first move.

For one thing, 4.d3 can be met by 4...Bc5 and while it's pretty even, I like the Italian bishop more than the Spanish one.
« Last Edit: 05/10/11 at 22:35:28 by Markovich »  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2915
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #7 - 05/10/11 at 10:03:16
Post Tools
trw wrote on 04/27/11 at 18:51:41:
couldn't agree more! Everytime I see 5. Re1 or 4. d3 I smile and I know I made the right opening choice. It is just encouragement for me to keep playing the Berlin. And why not? At worst black is equal and at best he's better! Surely, this would start converting players to the Berlin. Cool


You've a bit of an optimistic way of looking at things there.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2533
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #6 - 05/05/11 at 22:32:44
Post Tools
It's always interesting for me to see the differenct between a strong player's opinion (in this case a GM) and one of us patzers.  Thanks for chiming in, Tony!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #5 - 04/29/11 at 01:47:19
Post Tools
emary wrote on 03/27/09 at 10:14:48:
Hi,

my first three games with the Berlin Defence started

Smiley 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.Re1 Nd6 6.Bxc6  Cry

My rating is 1900+ and my opponents were rated 1800-2000.
Was that bad luck or have you similar experiences?

I think life is too short to play this position regularly.  Angry

Regards


If this position bothers you, you should find another defense. White has stronger methods than these. But objectively, Black is quite fine here.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Online


CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM
at ICCF 2023

Posts: 1829
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #4 - 04/28/11 at 12:04:01
Post Tools
Re1 is actaully not that silly if white does not want to play the endgame that resuts from mainline. However Bxc6 looks anti positional. Nxe5 is better eg Nxe5 Rxe5+ Be7 Bd3 with an equal position that is equal but not drawish, both players can play for a win here.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
trw
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1413
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #3 - 04/27/11 at 18:51:41
Post Tools
GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/27/09 at 10:37:40:
emary wrote on 03/27/09 at 10:14:48:
Was that bad luck or have you similar experiences?

I would consider that good luck - two bishops, easy development and at least equality with Black by move 6! Smiley

couldn't agree more! Everytime I see 5. Re1 or 4. d3 I smile and I know I made the right opening choice. It is just encouragement for me to keep playing the Berlin. And why not? At worst black is equal and at best he's better! Surely, this would start converting players to the Berlin. Cool
« Last Edit: 04/28/11 at 13:33:14 by trw »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
WilhelmHH
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 9
Location: Hamburg
Joined: 07/30/05
Gender: Male
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #2 - 04/27/11 at 18:44:56
Post Tools
GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/27/09 at 10:37:40:
emary wrote on 03/27/09 at 10:14:48:
Was that bad luck or have you similar experiences?

I would consider that good luck - two bishops, easy development and at least equality with Black by move 6! Smiley

easy development means
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.Re1 Nd6 6.Bxc6
dc6
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMTonyKosten
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3152
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male
Re: What does White reply against the Berlin?
Reply #1 - 03/27/09 at 10:37:40
Post Tools
emary wrote on 03/27/09 at 10:14:48:
Was that bad luck or have you similar experiences?

I would consider that good luck - two bishops, easy development and at least equality with Black by move 6! Smiley
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
emary
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 147
Joined: 07/26/08
What does White reply against the Berlin?
03/27/09 at 10:14:48
Post Tools
Hi,

my first three games with the Berlin Defence started

Smiley 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.Re1 Nd6 6.Bxc6  Cry

My rating is 1900+ and my opponents were rated 1800-2000.
Was that bad luck or have you similar experiences?

I think life is too short to play this position regularly.  Angry

Regards

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo