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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical (Read 43499 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #45 - 03/18/24 at 15:26:17
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TopNotch wrote on 04/17/09 at 02:42:55:
Fide Master vs Toppy - Rapid Tourney (E94) 12/04/09

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nbd7 8.Be3 Re8 9.d5 Nh5


This position, and others arising after 7...Nbd7, are covered in the latest (March 2024) issue of Chesspublishing.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #44 - 12/05/12 at 19:07:24
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Thanks -- I guessed it might be since the pages on 7 ..Nbd7 seems to total forty-odd judging by reviews. Should be some meat there!
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #43 - 12/05/12 at 18:54:13
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I would guess so.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #42 - 12/05/12 at 16:44:00
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Would that book be the best source of reasonably up-to-date info (apart from ChessPublishing of course!) on the non-Dembo lines?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #41 - 12/05/12 at 16:36:06
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I notice that that Kg2 move (after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nbd7 8. Be3 Re8 9. d5 Nh5 10. g3 Bf8 11. Ne1 Ng7 12. Nd3 Be7 13. Qd2 f5 14. f3 Nf6) was given as leading to a slight advantage for White in Panczyk & Ilczuk's 2009 book (citing a game in which Black replied 15...fe 16. fe Ng4).
  
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JEH
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #40 - 12/05/12 at 15:34:04
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Michael Ayton wrote on 12/05/12 at 13:49:31:
Golubev (I think it was him) makes the point in one of his ChessPub game annotations that the ...Nbd7 lines can get surprisingly rich and lively! Of course, if Black goes ...exd4 things could get very strategically and/or tactically sharp as a matter of course and here I guess a close knowledge of Classical Fianchetto lines would prove very useful ...


True, and I like the Classical line against the Fianchetto too.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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JEH
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #39 - 12/05/12 at 14:58:32
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Vass wrote on 12/05/12 at 14:37:17:
JEH wrote on 12/05/12 at 13:01:15:
...
I've played the dangerous Re8 weapon version in one game, and got destroyed, so yes, it's dangerous. ...

Grin
I can't stop laughing..
Grin
Excuse me, but I still can't.. ...


Yes, I'd never thought the dangerous part of these titles was meant to just apply to the opposition  Wink

For further amusement, here's the game with soundtrack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HptmXm956oI




  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Vass
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #38 - 12/05/12 at 14:37:17
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JEH wrote on 12/05/12 at 13:01:15:
...
I've played the dangerous Re8 weapon version in one game, and got destroyed, so yes, it's dangerous. ...

Grin
I can't stop laughing..
Grin
Excuse me, but I still can't.. ...
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #37 - 12/05/12 at 13:49:31
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Hi JEH and thanks. Yes, these are very much my perspectives too even tho' I've never actually tried the Dembo line. I like McNab's ideas and that's why I was attracted to the rather strange-looking ...b6 line, where in some circumstances I imagine Black can even play on the queenside but where the battle could really flare up anywhere depending on both players' aggressive or pacific intentions! Strategic yes, but Golubev (I think it was him) makes the point in one of his ChessPub game annotations that the ...Nbd7 lines can get surprisingly rich and lively! Of course, if Black goes ...exd4 things could get very strategically and/or tactically sharp as a matter of course and here I guess a close knowledge of Classical Fianchetto lines would prove very useful ...
  
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JEH
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #36 - 12/05/12 at 13:01:15
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I've been playing the Nbd7 KID for many years. Actuallty not studied a lot of theory for it. Possibly atypical of a KID mindset, I play it for a more slower battle. I like the uber solid way Colin McNab plays it (and the Pirc), so I would look there.

I've played the dangerous Re8 weapon version in one game, and got destroyed, so yes, it's dangerous. The line in the other thread with the prophylactic Qd2/f3/Kg2 plan does seem to kill black's play. I wouldn't like to go there.

Rather than Re8, I'd prefer a set up with c6, to meet d5 with c5 to slow down the queenside play, and/or Qe7 with a plan of exd4. These aren't going to set the board on fire, but that's how I like to play it (or maybe I'm just getting old  Wink), and it's not exactly hotly theoretical, but solid and strategic.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #35 - 12/05/12 at 10:20:02
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Quote:
As just said, 7... Nbd7 works fine against 8.Be3 ...


If this is the case, motorhead, what is your recommendation against the lines given by Ametanoitos and Daniel on the other thread? -- are you suggesting (a) that Black is really fine there (and if so, how?) or (b) that Black should choose a line other than the ...Re8 one (and if so, which)?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #34 - 12/04/12 at 23:25:48
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Nikos had something to say about this variation not too long ago:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1328708842/2#2
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #33 - 12/04/12 at 21:17:45
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Michael Ayton wrote on 12/04/12 at 15:27:19:
Two-three years on, I'd be interested in people's views on whether this Black system has 'stood the test of time'. The overall stats seem good for Black, but I'm not sure about the stats in the critical lines, or if that's significant. And what are the most critical lines? Black's plan has been refined in recent years with one or two tries involving ...a5 and even ...c5. Anyone know what's 'hot'?

I'm also interested in 7 0-0 Nbd7 8 Be3 Qe7 9 Qc2 c6 10 Rad1 b6!?, which might be 'a bit better for White' formally speaking but which has worked for Kozul and McNab! Tricky stuff?



As just said, 7... Nbd7 works fine against 8.Be3 but nothing has changed with 8.Qc2. So this was and is the critical variation.
  

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Michael Ayton
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #32 - 12/04/12 at 15:27:19
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Two-three years on, I'd be interested in people's views on whether this Black system has 'stood the test of time'. The overall stats seem good for Black, but I'm not sure about the stats in the critical lines, or if that's significant. And what are the most critical lines? Black's plan has been refined in recent years with one or two tries involving ...a5 and even ...c5. Anyone know what's 'hot'?

I'm also interested in 7 0-0 Nbd7 8 Be3 Qe7 9 Qc2 c6 10 Rad1 b6!?, which might be 'a bit better for White' formally speaking but which has worked for Kozul and McNab! Tricky stuff?
  
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motörhead
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: 7…Nbd7 in the Classical
Reply #31 - 02/18/10 at 23:15:54
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TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 16:48:35:
I agree with Markovich. I own both of her Everyman books as well and fine them to be quite good. Her assessments are sometimes vague, for instance "Black has the initiative" or "I'd prefer Black", but that's fine for me in a repertoire book. I think it should be up to the reader to take further steps and investigate all of her critical positions anyway.


First of all, we now discuss two books which aren't relevant for the very topic. Back to that I still find it not too helpfull what Dembo shows us. She presents a dangerous weapon but misses to explain how to use it. As said in a post before, she gives some variations with comments like "black is fine". But what about the function of that weapon? I think that is not to the point, that series of books has.
I do not possess other Dembo-books but I have Watson's "Dangerous Weapons The French". Compairing these both books for me leads to a clear result: Watson is much more insightful (but that too is off the topic Wink)
What I can extract from the ractions in this thread up to now is that the dangerous weapon 8.Qc2 Nh5!? isn't really dangerous at all, nor is it doubleedged enough for Black to muddy the waters. I simply see no active way to proceed after 9.Bg5 f6 10.Be3 Nf4 11.Bxf4 exf4 and now say 12.a3 (or pass)...
cheese
  

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