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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Re: 4.f3 idea (Read 61918 times)
chandrashekharkoravi
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #79 - 09/17/14 at 16:38:00
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TheGreatOogieBoogie said that Just have something ready for the ...d5 variation of the f3 Nimzo.  Because white has played f3 instead of Nf3 there's no need for the pawn to be on d6 instead and rather reinforce the e4 point too.  Lips Sealed
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/repertoire-for-1d4-player?page=2
  
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bragesjo
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #78 - 01/29/12 at 11:52:29
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About f3 c5 d5 0-0 e4 b5 line I have won several games where white overextended in an unclear position. An other interesting black options is  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. f3 c5 5. d5 b5 6. e4 bxc4 7. Bxc4 Nxd5 8. Bxd5 exd5 9. Qxd5 Nc6 with chanses for both sides.

The f3 d5 line is complicated, black can often make the pawn sac permant in return for active piece play. Alaos, Kramnik has played 8 .. f5!?.

An intresting game in f3 Nimzo indian is Anand- Wang Hoa where white saced a piece in for two danegerous pawns and won quickly,
  
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #77 - 01/28/12 at 21:19:14
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I've seen an IM recently playing 4. f3 as White and losing more than one game against opponents rated about 200 points lower. I.e. not automatically easy to play for White.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #76 - 01/28/12 at 18:36:41
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Good luck on proving any edge in the messes stemming from 4.f3 c5 5.d5 0-0 6.e4 b5. Black's not the only one needing accurate play, and he's definitely not the only one taking risks.
  

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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #75 - 01/28/12 at 09:31:08
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After a long and careful study of the Saemisch and 4.f3 lines I've now decided to take on 4.f3 as my main weapon against the Nimzo.
4.f3 c5 5.d5 is probably (slightly) better for white although black can try to mess things up with b5!? - but as usual it's black taking the greater risks here.
I've done excellent shop in the past with 4.f3 d5 5.a3 Bc3:+ 6.bc3: c5 7.cd5: Nd5: 8.dc5: and have score 4/5 with this variation - two draws and three wins. The bishop's pair is a very important asset for white in this variation, especially in the endgame.
  
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MNb
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #74 - 08/26/11 at 20:56:55
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I really have no idea. When I had to make the choice I did not like 14.cxd4 at all and just thought 14.Bxd4 more logical. White has to give up a pawn anyway so I wanted to create compensation on the Black squares. Black prevented that by accepting some weaknesses. At any stage I felt confident about my compensation, but I also felt that I lacked winning prospectives.
So I have decided not to play this again in corr. chess. Indeed my results with the normal Rubinstein are better. But I also assumed that someone might try it OTB.
  

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NeverGiveUp
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #73 - 08/26/11 at 14:43:35
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MNb wrote on 08/26/11 at 13:32:10:
I enjoyed this game:

MNb - Kostanjsek,Z [E29]
em WS/H/187 ICCF, 2009
½-½

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 O-O 5.Bd3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.Ne2 b6 9.e4 Ne8 10.O-O Ba6 11.f4 f5 12.Ng3 g6 13.Be3 cxd4 14.Bxd4 Rc8 15.exf5 gxf5 16.Bf2 Na5 17.c5 Bxd3 18.Qxd3 bxc5 19.Nh5 d5 20.Rfe1 Rc6 21.Rab1 Rf7 22.Re3 Kf8 23.Rbe1 Qc8 24.Qe2 Nf6 25.Nxf6 Rxf6 26.Qh5 Qc7 27.Rh3 Nc4 28.Qh4 Rg6 29.Qxh7 Qxh7 30.Rxh7 Rg7 31.Rh6 Kf7 32.a4 Nd2 33.Rd1 Ne4 34.Rxd5 Rb6

Would your interesting move 14.Bd4: change the evaluation of this important variation? In the past Karpov has done good shop with it - with black, of course. 
  
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MNb
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #72 - 08/26/11 at 13:32:10
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I enjoyed this game:

MNb - Kostanjsek,Z [E29]
em WS/H/187 ICCF, 2009
½-½

  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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NeverGiveUp
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #71 - 08/26/11 at 12:17:12
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MNb wrote on 08/25/11 at 13:47:53:
I find NGU's line beginning with 8.e4 highly unattractive.

Right guys if this is the verdict - what do you consider an attractive line for white in the Saemisch then?
  
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MNb
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #70 - 08/25/11 at 13:47:53
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I find NGU's line beginning with 8.e4 highly unattractive. The best White can hope for is that that pawn on g7 cramps Black enough to save the draw (ie at some point Black cannot make any progress except lifting the King from his duty by returning the Exchange with ...Rxg7).
Besides that there is 10...Ne4 idea 11...Qa5+ stiffling all White's chances in the bud. For an attacking player insipid lines like this are at least as problematic.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #69 - 08/25/11 at 02:39:51
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Better 8.Ne2 and e4 later. And why not? Ne2 is highly thematic.
  

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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #68 - 08/25/11 at 01:20:50
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15. Bb2 b5 and then what?

I don't see white doing alright. If the engine is to be believed then white is significantly worse. My personal view is that black at the minimum has a safe small edge.
  

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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #67 - 08/24/11 at 14:33:46
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Vass wrote on 08/22/11 at 18:03:18:
NeverGiveUp wrote on 08/22/11 at 09:53:37:
Vass wrote on 08/20/11 at 19:34:52:
And you are not afraid of 9... d5!  Huh

Well it is a good move. I would continue 10.e5 with the idea 10. ... Ne4 11.Ne2 cd4: 12.cd4: Qa5+ 13.Bd2 Nd2: 14.Qd2: Qd2:+ 15.Kd2: Na5 16.cd5:!? Nb3+ 17.Kc3 Na1: 18.d6! when white will follow up with Ra1: and has excellent compensation for the exchange (a very remarkable idea of my computer).
Black's best is probably 10. ... dc4: 11.Bc4: Nd5 12.Ne2 with equality. But I expect OTB that not many black players will go d5.   

If that is what you mean...then don't!
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. a3 Bxc3+ 5. bxc3 c5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bd3 O-O 8. e4 cxd4 9. cxd4 d5 10. e5 dxc4 11. Bxc4 Qxd4! 12. Qxd4 Nxd4 *

White is doing allright here after 13.ef6: Nc2+ 14.Ke2 Na1: 15.Bb2 winning the exchange and keeping the bishops pair. I would say in these variations black has equality at most with precise play, so this whole 8.e4!? variation seems perfectly playable for white. I'd say I find 8. cd4: 9.cd4: d5 not very logical since black opens up the position while white has the two bishops, and helps white to get rid of his doubled pawns.
  
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #66 - 08/23/11 at 08:32:41
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BTW I am now seriously working on my Saemisch understanding (rather than learning variations) by going through Ivan Sokolov's Winning Chess Middlegames. He has a large part on doubled pawns, mostly focussing on the Saemisch variation, and discusses the different structures that can arise. It's a great book by a great player.
  
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Vass
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #65 - 08/22/11 at 18:03:18
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NeverGiveUp wrote on 08/22/11 at 09:53:37:
Vass wrote on 08/20/11 at 19:34:52:
And you are not afraid of 9... d5!  Huh

Well it is a good move. I would continue 10.e5 with the idea 10. ... Ne4 11.Ne2 cd4: 12.cd4: Qa5+ 13.Bd2 Nd2: 14.Qd2: Qd2:+ 15.Kd2: Na5 16.cd5:!? Nb3+ 17.Kc3 Na1: 18.d6! when white will follow up with Ra1: and has excellent compensation for the exchange (a very remarkable idea of my computer).
Black's best is probably 10. ... dc4: 11.Bc4: Nd5 12.Ne2 with equality. But I expect OTB that not many black players will go d5.   

If that is what you mean...then don't!
  
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