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Normal Topic Question after watching 1...d6 universal: (Read 5266 times)
FirebrandX
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Re: Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
Reply #8 - 05/06/09 at 20:59:34
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Edit: Nevermind. Thanks for your help!
« Last Edit: 05/07/09 at 06:49:37 by FirebrandX »  
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Papageno
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Re: Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
Reply #7 - 05/06/09 at 14:58:42
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I think we can help you out with what Davies writes in his 2008 book "starting out: the modern" (which is 1...g6 and 2...Bg7):

After 1. d4 g6 2. Nf3 Bg7 3. Bg5, he recommends 3... c5 4. e3 cxd4 5. exd4 Nf6 followed by 0-0 and d6 with "a sound and flexible position". In case of white playing the waiting move 3. c3 first, Black can adopt a good leningrad Dutch setup with 3... d6 4. Bg5 h6 5. Bh4 f5. Here the white move c2-c3 is rather ineffective, he says.

I think it makes little to no difference going after these lines after 1...d6 as well. Hope this helps.

  
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FirebrandX
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Re: Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
Reply #6 - 05/06/09 at 05:15:55
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Oh no I didn't actually miss that. My point is that such a line is nowhere to be found on the DVD. The viewer is literally left wondering "What do I do against the Torre?" Davies use of the Tromp move order for addressing Bg5 skips over that fact that Torre players will bring the knight out first. Thus, as I said, playing h6 and g5 doesn't apply when you've already played g6.

  
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MNb
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Re: Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
Reply #5 - 05/06/09 at 02:03:13
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I see - it was not clear to me that Davies recommended 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 and I suppose 3.Bd3 not g6.
You miss something as well - Black's independent option 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 and if not 4.e4 then 4...f5, as I already mentioned.
  

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FirebrandX
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Re: Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
Reply #4 - 05/06/09 at 00:52:16
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Again you miss the point. Since the Pirc is suggested the moment white plays e4, you'd be playing Nf6, not g6. Therefore, there's no transposing feature that can be taken from the Pirc DVD when white plays the Torre setup based on Davies suggestion of 1. d4 d6 2. Nf3 g6. Like I said, a Torre player isn't likely to want to transpose into a Pirc with e4, so there's a hole in the repertoire here.


To put it a simpler way: Neither on the 1...d6 Universal or the Pirc DVD is there ANY line that transposes into 1. d4 d6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bg5 with white refusing to play an early e4. 

  
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Re: Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
Reply #3 - 05/05/09 at 21:12:42
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FirebrandX wrote on 05/05/09 at 01:54:20:

I'm fine with the Pirc as part of the repertoire along with 1...d6, but it still leaves the issue as I originally stated. A Torre player is more apt to hold onto his Torre structure, rather than transpose into some Byrne variation of the Pirc.


Not entirely. In the first place the Byrne Variation of the Pirc only arises if White plays Nc3 - not likely for a Torreplayer. More important, as soon as you have decided how to meet 1.e4 d6 2.d4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.c3 and 5.Bg5 it is only logical to chose the same setup against the Torre as well. The two relevant questions are: an early Nf6 or not? Eg after 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 or some related move order you might consider ...f5 playing a line of the Leningrad. If you prefer ...Nf6 the next question is ...c5 or e5 ?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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FirebrandX
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Re: Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
Reply #2 - 05/05/09 at 01:54:20
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The 1...d6 universal DVD does not cover 1. e4 variants because you are encouraged to buy his Pirc Defense DVD. He only briefly mentions that you can play the Pirc if white plays 2. e4. 

I'm fine with the Pirc as part of the repertoire along with 1...d6, but it still leaves the issue as I originally stated. A Torre player is more apt to hold onto his Torre structure, rather than transpose into some Byrne variation of the Pirc.
  
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Re: Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
Reply #1 - 05/05/09 at 01:46:42
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What does Davies recommend after 1.e4 d6 2.d4 ? If it is the Modern, eg g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.c3 and 5.Bg5 you can find the answer there. 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 quite often will transpose.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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FirebrandX
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Question after watching 1...d6 universal:
05/05/09 at 01:33:37
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I just got done watching GM Nigel Davies 1...d6 universal and I have a problem with how he addresses Tromp & Torre systems. Actually my problem concerns the Torre. In his repertoire DVD, the move order suggested for black against 1. d4 and 2. Nf3 is 1...d6 and 2...g6. However, when he addresses the Tromp & Torre systems, he starts from the move order 1. d4 d6 2. Bg5 h6 3. Bh4 g5 4. Bg3 c5 That's all great, but I'm certain Torre players usually start with d4 and Nf3 before playing Bg5. Because of this, somebody trying to follow the DVD will end up in the move order 1. d4 d6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bg5 where now black cannot play h6 and g5 without having lost tempo.

So what then would Nigel suggest against 3. Bg5? Reason I ask is an FM friend of mine loves playing the Torre and especially against the kingside fianchetto.
  
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