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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) A Dutch Bird? (Read 17702 times)
TicklyTim
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Re: A Dutch Bird?
Reply #8 - 06/26/09 at 09:07:04
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I was trying to advise a Bird's player on a safe simple line to play against From's Gambit. After researching a little I decided that there wasn't one. Maybe the transposition into the King's Gambit is the 'safe' line - which sounds a bizzare statement.
Can white steer things into calm waters after 1...e5?
  
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TicklyTim
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Re: A Dutch Bird?
Reply #7 - 06/26/09 at 08:49:23
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"A Dutch Bird?"
If you have to ask, you're in the wrong part of Amsterdam...
  
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Gambit
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Re: A Dutch Bird?
Reply #6 - 06/26/09 at 04:46:12
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Really? The Hobbs, 1...g5, and Hobbs-Zilbermints Gambits, 1 f4 h6 2 Nf3 g5 3 fxg5, although rarely seen, can challenge the Bird. I know that these gambits can surprise people!
  
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Re: A Dutch Bird?
Reply #5 - 06/22/09 at 09:08:53
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You may like to look at the Kindermann book on The Dutch Leningrad if you havent already. That plus danielsen's Polar Bear stuff will sort you.
  
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BirdBrain
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Re: A Dutch Bird?
Reply #4 - 05/29/09 at 15:09:23
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Another good theme behind playing these setups is that you have a defense and an offense in one bag.  Playing 1. f4 allows you to play into a position that you are familiar with, and then against almost anything (not 1. e4 or 1. g4) you have the Dutch Defense.  It is playable against anything else that White will throw at you, and if he does not push d4 early, he stands a chance of Black gaining easy equality, as his fight to control e5 is good.

Another setup that the Bird-Dutch opponent will play, that is a bit annoying, is the Bf4/Bf5 setup, wanting to clamp down on e4 or e5 and make it harder for the Bird/Dutch player to get into gear.  But there are various methods for you to achieve good play against solid setups such as that. 

I remember when I bought Taylor's Bird's Opening book - it was good, but I began to learn that there is a lot more to the Bird than he gives.  It is impossible to provide everything there is for an entire system in the book that he gave.  He only covers a handful of ideas (although they are sufficient to give you a taste of things). 

I used his book to begin to learn the positions in the opening, and then I have never owned a real Dutch book (only one with miniatures, and most were White wins).  I have faired well enough with 1. d4 f5 that I could play that against any of my opponents and always have an interesting game. 

As far as 1. e4 goes, you will need to find something else - but there are plenty of choices. You may consider what you like to have in a position before you lock in a defensive choice...
  
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MNb
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Re: A Dutch Bird?
Reply #3 - 05/19/09 at 21:38:52
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One way Black can take benefit from being a tempo down is holding the d-pawn back: 1.f4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 (g6) 3.e4 e6 4.d3 g6 5.Be2 Bg7 6.0-0 Nge7 Flude-MNb, em CL ICCF 2007. White needed to play precisely to hold the draw.
In case you don't agree you should consult

http://www.geocities.com/drawyah/

In general I think the Leningrad Bird (with g3 and Bg2) gives White the most opportunities to grab the initiative. In that case White can play 5.g3 in the game above or even 3.g3, eventually entering the Closed Sicilian (with Nc3) or the Big Clamp (without Nc3). If this is your choice I would advise to study the Leningrad proper first. Then you will understand better how to make best use of the extra tempo as White. But you should also prepare lines like 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Bg4 or 2...Nc6 and 3...Bg4.

The most ambitious way to counter the From is accepting it. That is not everybody's cup of tea. So you might look at

http://www.chessville.com/UCO/TRNT/TheRoadNotTaken.htm

http://hem.passagen.se/tjmisha/
click Chess!
click King's Gambit Stuff
click The old Articles
click Just a Rush and a Push

for a sound, slightly unambitious offbeat reaction.

The macho-approach is 2.e4.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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thibdb13
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Re: A Dutch Bird?
Reply #2 - 05/18/09 at 14:28:04
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As BPaulsen says, the Bird is sound but do not await to get a clear edge of the opening unless your opponent chooses really weak moves.
Just as in the Dutch, you have the choice to go for a classical setup, a sort of leningrad, an Antoshin, a Q-side fianchetto and should be prepared against Bg4 (the recipe) and the From gambit.
To play the Bird at a good level you should also have some knowledge of the typical dutch themes (pushing the f-pawn, when to go for e4) and know when it is an advantage to be a tempo ahead of the dutch and when not.
The Dutch is a defense and it is easier to play than the Bird in the sense that you already know what your openent has plaid. The tempo difference is so a very important concept in the Bird.
And another thing: as already said, you will rarely get a significant edge of the opening what means that you must be able to be patient during the game.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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BPaulsen
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Re: A Dutch Bird?
Reply #1 - 05/18/09 at 14:16:04
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halfacreek wrote on 05/18/09 at 13:19:54:
I've been toying with the Bird's opening as white and the Dutch as black. However, before I delve too deeply and spend too much time on them I wanted to know what the current opinions and status of these openings were and if these were viable options at the amateur level? Are there problem variations that one needs to especially prepare for?

Thanks


The Bird's Opening is 100% sound. Don't expect any sort of edge out of the opening by virtue of the move itself, but given that you'll be in familiar positions that your opponent doesn't see often, it's not a bad opening to have in your repetoire. There's ample opportunity to outplay an unwary opponent, and there are plenty of people completely unprepared for it.

Be prepared in the From's Gambit, especially. There's nothing else exotic that black can throw at you that will jeopardize your position. There's a lot of club players that will throw out 1...e5 without knowing hardly any theory at all. If you know the theory, you will beat them handily.

The Dutch Defense is perfectly sound as well, but you will need to be prepared in all of the Anti-Dutch Systems, because very rarely will you get a main line Dutch at the club level. The Anti-Dutch Systems don't really promise white anything, but black needs to be prepared for them. The Staunton Gambit comes to mind as something you will see quite a bit, in addition to 2. Bg5, 2. Nc3 with 3. Bg5, and various g4 spikes.

Both are just fine on the amateur level. If you work diligently, you will have a pair of openings you can play for a very long time, that always fly under the radar.
  

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halfacreek
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A Dutch Bird?
05/18/09 at 13:19:54
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I've been toying with the Bird's opening as white and the Dutch as black. However, before I delve too deeply and spend too much time on them I wanted to know what the current opinions and status of these openings were and if these were viable options at the amateur level? Are there problem variations that one needs to especially prepare for?

Thanks
  
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