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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Markovich Doctine (Read 49122 times)
TonyRo
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #40 - 06/03/09 at 17:50:01
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Does this Doctrine have a Correspondence Caveat?
  
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Markovich
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #39 - 06/03/09 at 17:39:55
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Paddy wrote on 06/03/09 at 13:24:44:
I guess that the corollary of the Markovich doctrine goes something like this:

"When playing against a much stronger player, choose an opening line which leads to a middlegame where you can follow a clear, easy and unsubtle plan, thus reducing the superior player's advantage in positional understanding."

Note that this takes priority; it is irrelevant whether this means that your stronger opponent also has a "clear, easy and unsubtle plan". The important thing is that YOU know what you're doing.



There you have it exactly!
  

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Willempie
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #38 - 06/03/09 at 14:53:36
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Antillian wrote on 06/03/09 at 12:27:23:
Willempie wrote on 06/02/09 at 13:57:45:
-Patzers arent patzers because they can deliver an attack in the style of Kasparov, Radjabov or Fischer.


Does "weaker player" = "patzer" ?  Not necessarily, me thinks. Although, I suppose all us non master are patzers anyway. But your opponent can be a "good" decent player relative to your strength who is great at playing King's Indain type kingside assualts. Yes, he may not be a Kaparov, Rodjabov or Fischer, but oddly enough I have found myself occasionally beaten by many a player who can't quite play like one of these three.

Patzer is shorter Wink

Sure your opponent can be great at KID attacks, but the odds are that he isnt and that he plays the KID for other reasons. He may have been inspired by Kasparov or books, he may want to play a universal defense or he may think that he is great at attacking or that he has an attacking style (whatever that may be). Anyway I dont see a reason to avoid your standard lines, because your opponent is weaker. Imo if you feel this way you shouldnt play this line at all, as clearly you miss the confidence in it.

Btw you should check what Korchnoi did to lower rated players who dared to play the KID against him Smiley
  

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Paddy
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #37 - 06/03/09 at 13:24:44
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Willempie wrote on 06/03/09 at 07:09:16:
Then I dont understand it at all. You dont wanna allow an easy plan (not according to me btw) against a weaker opponent, but have no qualms about it when played against a stronger player?


I guess that the corollary of the Markovich doctrine goes something like this:

"When playing against a much stronger player, choose an opening line which leads to a middlegame where you can follow a clear, easy and unsubtle plan, thus reducing the superior player's advantage in positional understanding."

Note that this takes priority; it is irrelevant whether this means that your stronger opponent also has a "clear, easy and unsubtle plan". The important thing is that YOU know what you're doing.

PS Call me crazy if you like, but this prioritising reminds me strangely of the hierarchy for arranging your pawns in bishop endings.

Precept 1: arrange your pawns to increase the scope of your own bishop.
Precept 2: arrange your pawns to decrease the scope of the enemy bishop.

However, when the position is such that these precepts are in conflict, Precept 1) should normally be given priority, since the scope of your own pieces is paramount.
  
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Antillian
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #36 - 06/03/09 at 13:21:46
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Markovish,

Avrukh will recommend 3. g3 after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6. He actually mentions this in Volume 1 in the Introduction.

I should rephrase what i said. White cannot be forced into playing a finachetto Benoni after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 no more than he can be forced into it after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 c5. In both cases he does not have to play 5. d5 or 4. d5 respectively,  but the alternatives are  5. Nf3  and 4. Nf3 respectively which is a Symmetrical English opening. However, in both cases 5. d5  and 4. d5 lead to a Modern Benoni.


  

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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #35 - 06/03/09 at 13:06:46
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Willempie wrote on 06/03/09 at 07:09:16:
Then I dont understand it at all. You dont wanna allow an easy plan (not according to me btw) against a weaker opponent, but have no qualms about it when played against a stronger player?


I myself would be very happy to play White's side of the Mar del Plata against a stronger player.  It would probably join BPaulsen with Ne1.  I would please me to know that if my superior opponent failed to mate me, I would most likely win.  But I doubt that a much stronger player would elect the Mar del Plata against me.  I would think that he would play the more fluid ...Na6 or ...Nbd7, the better to expose my relative weakness.
  

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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #34 - 06/03/09 at 12:57:38
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Well, one thing we know for certain about Avrukh's Volume 2 is that it will not advocate 3.Nc3 against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6. Therefore, we can also conclude that he won't advocate an early f4 system against the Benoni.  The big question is whether after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6, he will advocate 3.Nf3 or 3.g3.  

@Antillian:  Is it true that if you play the Fianchetto verus the KID, you can't avoid the Fianchetto Benoni?  I wasn't aware of that.

P.S. How dare you claim authorship of my entirely new and profoundly original doctrine?!
  

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Antillian
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #33 - 06/03/09 at 12:27:23
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Hmm...funny. For some reason, all along I thought this was called the Antillian Doctrine.

Other good choices are the Makagonov System and the Petrosian System.

Willempie wrote on 06/02/09 at 13:57:45:
-Patzers arent patzers because they can deliver an attack in the style of Kasparov, Radjabov or Fischer.


Does "weaker player" = "patzer" ?  Not necessarily, me thinks. Although, I suppose all us non master are patzers anyway. But your opponent can be a "good" decent player relative to your strength who is great at playing King's Indain type kingside assualts. Yes, he may not be a Kaparov, Rodjabov or Fischer, but oddly enough I have found myself occasionally beaten by many a player who can't quite play like one of these three.

TonyRo wrote on 06/02/09 at 20:39:16:
We'll find out soon, the book isn't out yet. All anyone knows is that he's recommending Fianchetto Systems against most everything.


The issue is transpositions. You can't avoid the Fianchetto Grunfeld or Benoni if you are going to play the Fianchetto KID as White.
  

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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #32 - 06/03/09 at 12:01:21
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Quote:
I dont even get to execute my mating combination wrongly


Grin

This was my case too. Usually a stronger white player will play prophilaxically avoiding at all cost ...g5-g4. Meanwhile will develop his queen's side play as usual and finally will kill you. This is my own experience.

Recently, I have come back to the KID and I have found that I'm a better player now  Roll Eyes because my attacks, sometimes and only sometimes, arrives first  Grin

Anyway when playing against someone stronger than me I prefer something more solid as the QGD-Lasker Variation. I love to see the face of my opponent  Shocked when my knight to jumps into e4. Lasker, what a player!!



  

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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #31 - 06/03/09 at 07:51:03
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TonyRo wrote on 06/02/09 at 20:39:16:
We'll find out soon, the book isn't out yet. All anyone knows is that he's recommending Fianchetto Systems against most everything.


I would be really depressed to see a repetoire recommending the Fianchetto Grunfeld, so I hope he has something in mind.

Only English repetoires can get away with that, because they get a slightly better version of the Fianchetto Grunfeld (if white elects 1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. cxd5 Nxd5 4. g3), but even then black equalizes easily.
  

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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #30 - 06/03/09 at 07:09:16
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Then I dont understand it at all. You dont wanna allow an easy plan (not according to me btw) against a weaker opponent, but have no qualms about it when played against a stronger player?
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #29 - 06/03/09 at 00:03:23
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TN wrote on 06/02/09 at 22:05:17:
.
Come to think of it, this doctrine makes some sense in relation to the Modern Benoni as well - why head for the crazy complications of the 8...Nfd7 Taimanov Attack against a weaker player when you could secure a small edge with the Modern Main Line (where Black will probably avoid 9...b5 because then he will have no possibilities to play for a win), or even the Fianchetto variation.


No!  This is about avoiding a particular stock attack, not avoiding demanding but promising lines in general.  The last thing I would want to be associated with would be a recommendation to avoid critical lines.  Against the Modern Benoni I would play the Taimanov in a flash.  When the blood is in the water, by all means, become a shark.
  

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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #28 - 06/02/09 at 22:05:17
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Willempie wrote on 06/02/09 at 15:04:40:
Dink Heckler wrote on 06/02/09 at 14:38:34:
I tend to agree with Markovich. It's a bit like monkeys on a typewriter; give them long enough, and they'll type out Shakespeare. Well, guess what? In these lines, the typewriter has very few keys, and Black only needs to type one (longish) word. Also, as Black is lower rated, he probably won't have any issues with going all in (if he has any sense), so perhaps, when we get over the horizon, that optimistic sac will turn out to have been inspired.

Why subject yourself to this as White? make Black think...don't let him play sac, sac, errr maybe mate, who knows?

Nah not really. Unlike with openings such as the Giuoco or the King's gambit the real problem is building up the attack properly.
As a patzer I screw up the latter by not executing a winning combination (or more often I execute it wrongly), in the KID I screw up because I dont build up the attack properly, often because my opponent is not letting me have it all my way, often by demolishing my queenside. I dont even get to execute my mating combination wrongly Wink


I admit that I sometimes have a similar problem when playing the King's Indian, Mar del Plata as Black - by the time I get my kingside attack going, my opponent has virtually demolished my queenside. But I still agree with Markovich because if Black makes a couple of dubious moves, he will be much worse but will still be able to mount an attack on White's king. If White makes a couple of dubious moves, he could be lost or even mated.

Come to think of it, this doctrine makes some sense in relation to the Modern Benoni as well - why head for the crazy complications of the 8...Nfd7 Taimanov Attack against a weaker player when you could secure a small edge with the Modern Main Line (where Black will probably avoid 9...b5 because then he will have no possibilities to play for a win), or even the Fianchetto variation.
  

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TonyRo
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #27 - 06/02/09 at 20:39:16
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We'll find out soon, the book isn't out yet. All anyone knows is that he's recommending Fianchetto Systems against most everything.
  
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Re: The Markovich Doctine
Reply #26 - 06/02/09 at 20:14:43
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ANDREW BRETT wrote on 06/02/09 at 12:47:07:
If the fiancetto was so easy for Black , I'd be surprised as Avrukh is recommnending it for white ! Go figure !


What does Avrukh recommend against the pesky Grunfeld transposition that comes up whenever g3 appears on the board? For years I've been looking for a way to get into the Fianchetto KID advantageously, but I've never been able to avoid that problem.

White can't prevent it, and it's a bone-dry equality last I checked. Granted there's some theory to know, but nothing black need fear.
  

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