(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Daring Defences to 1. d4 › Dutch › New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
(Moderators: CraigEvans, Hadron, proustiskeen)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 16
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch (Read 187240 times)
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 1068
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #196 - 02/17/10 at 13:52:13
Post Tools
Schaakhamster wrote on 02/17/10 at 05:11:26:
TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 03:33:19:
Apparently hyperbole is lost on you. Readability isn't a matter of adaptation. I'd argue that it's the exact opposite, and that if I can't make it out easily right off the mark, then it's completely unreadable. What if an entire chessbook was like that?  

The point about being a scientist/engineer is that I'm paid to do things in a logical and efficient fashion, and to recognize and fix things that aren't!


To be honest I believe that Brabo is also an engineer, if I remember correctly  Smiley


That's correct. Fortunately we aren't all the same. Smiley
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2916
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #195 - 02/17/10 at 13:06:13
Post Tools
well then good work Brabo - nice improvement, and gets the mark of approval from Avrukh himself! Only problem now is he's come up with another more positional line which may be trickier to deal with - although it should be manageable!?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #194 - 02/17/10 at 12:40:48
Post Tools
No, it's Brabo's idea.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2916
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #193 - 02/17/10 at 12:30:42
Post Tools
Ametanoitos - is 13...Nb6! your improvement? If so good work - amazing that Avrukh has decided to change his recommendation, and we've not even got the book yet! Stonewall lives on....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #192 - 02/17/10 at 12:22:47
Post Tools
I am an engineer also but i fail to see what all these have to do with this current discussion. To close this:

@Tony Ro: Yes, we are familiar with another notation so this all looks weird but Brabo is used in another notation and it seems difficult for him to write in another form the variations. This makes sense to me and i respect that, so the slight inconvenience caused to me when i read his posts is not a big issue. Also how we can difine the efficiency of different chess notations? This is impossible. It's the same if we compare the syntax of C or Java or Matlab. It's just a matter of taste and the way we are used to see the notaions in today's books.

Anyone at the main subject please?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schaakhamster
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 650
Joined: 05/13/08
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #191 - 02/17/10 at 11:24:25
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 02/17/10 at 10:00:55:
TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 03:33:19:
Apparently hyperbole is lost on you.

Apparently irony is lost on you, if you are the victim yourself.

TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 03:33:19:
Readability isn't a matter of adaptation. I'd argue that it's the exact opposite, and that if I can't make it out easily right off the mark, then it's completely unreadable. What if an entire chessbook was like that?

Really? So according to you the Russians are to blame that I can't read their script. Very comforting.
Yes, so what? I own several chessbooks with that particular notation, albeit without the comma's. No problem at all. In fact I have changed the notation for my scoresheets a couple of times during the last 30 years. Possibly I could do that because I don't have the adaptability of a young scientist and engineer.

TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 03:33:19:
The point about being a scientist/engineer is that I'm paid to do things in a logical and efficient fashion, and to recognize and fix things that aren't!

The world would become a boring place if guys, who are paid to do things in your logical and efficient way, could proscribe how things have to be done.


In a sense the logical and efficient way is a convention. It is a cocktail of different attributes and the importance of each attribute (the weight if you will) depends on the values of a certain group (be it society or the company you work for).

Take for instance environmental awareness. 20 years ago only a minor group of people really cared. And most companies didn't care (enough pollutionscandals around). I would be surprised if environmental issues have become increasingly important for engineers compared to 20 years ago.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
linksspringer
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 376
Joined: 09/25/07
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #190 - 02/17/10 at 11:08:09
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 02/16/10 at 23:08:22:
It seems tha Mr Avrukh changed his mind! He believes that the ...Nb6 idea is strong! He now recomends another line for White. Wow! That was a real sock for me! A high-quality author admits his error just before his book is out! I wish all the authors could do the same....Well done Brabo!


Remarkable! Here is a direct link to the PGN:
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/GM2-update.pgn
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #189 - 02/17/10 at 10:00:55
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 03:33:19:
Apparently hyperbole is lost on you.

Apparently irony is lost on you, if you are the victim yourself.

TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 03:33:19:
Readability isn't a matter of adaptation. I'd argue that it's the exact opposite, and that if I can't make it out easily right off the mark, then it's completely unreadable. What if an entire chessbook was like that?

Really? So according to you the Russians are to blame that I can't read their script. Very comforting.
Yes, so what? I own several chessbooks with that particular notation, albeit without the comma's. No problem at all. In fact I have changed the notation for my scoresheets a couple of times during the last 30 years. Possibly I could do that because I don't have the adaptability of a young scientist and engineer.

TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 03:33:19:
The point about being a scientist/engineer is that I'm paid to do things in a logical and efficient fashion, and to recognize and fix things that aren't!

The world would become a boring place if guys, who are paid to do things in your logical and efficient way, could proscribe how things have to be done.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schaakhamster
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 650
Joined: 05/13/08
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #188 - 02/17/10 at 05:11:26
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 02/17/10 at 03:33:19:
Apparently hyperbole is lost on you. Readability isn't a matter of adaptation. I'd argue that it's the exact opposite, and that if I can't make it out easily right off the mark, then it's completely unreadable. What if an entire chessbook was like that?  

The point about being a scientist/engineer is that I'm paid to do things in a logical and efficient fashion, and to recognize and fix things that aren't!


To be honest I believe that Brabo is also an engineer, if I remember correctly  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1826
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #187 - 02/17/10 at 03:33:19
Post Tools
Apparently hyperbole is lost on you. Readability isn't a matter of adaptation. I'd argue that it's the exact opposite, and that if I can't make it out easily right off the mark, then it's completely unreadable. What if an entire chessbook was like that?   

The point about being a scientist/engineer is that I'm paid to do things in a logical and efficient fashion, and to recognize and fix things that aren't!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #186 - 02/17/10 at 02:25:06
Post Tools
If you had adapted your eyes weren't gouging out. Readability is a matter of adaptation. Congratulations that you are a scientist and an engineer. Alas I fail to see what this has to do with this, probably because I am just a teacher.  Tongue
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1826
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #185 - 02/17/10 at 02:03:02
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 02/14/10 at 23:23:45:
TonyRo wrote on 02/14/10 at 16:08:46:
I feel like gouging my eyes out when I read analysis that is littered with commas and semicolons.


And I thought the younger generation had a better adaptability.


I never said I couldn't adapt or read it. I'm one of the younger posters on the board yes, but also a scientist and an engineer, and to me that notation is just strictly worse based on efficiency and readability. I doubt you can argue with this.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #184 - 02/16/10 at 23:08:22
Post Tools
It seems tha Mr Avrukh changed his mind! He believes that the ...Nb6 idea is strong! He now recomends another line for White. Wow! That was a real sock for me! A high-quality author admits his error just before his book is out! I wish all the authors could do the same....Well done Brabo!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 1068
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #183 - 02/16/10 at 00:33:56
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 02/15/10 at 08:10:00:
This is what Mr Aagaard wrote in his blog after a question of mine concerning this line :

"I will forward this line to Boris, as it would be nice to come with a clear recommendation from the author, but I do not think Black equalises, unless you play like a machine with White. Lines I found to favour White slightly are: 14.Qxb5 Nc4 15.Ne5 Bxe5 (looks best) 16.dxe5 a5 17.a3 Nxe5 18.Qc5, and White has two bishops and a passed pawn. Black does have a nice centre, but still I prefer White a bit. As an active played I am also propelled towards 14.Bg5 Qd7 15.Rfc1 Rb8 (machine move, but looks right!?) 16.Qxd7 Bxd7 17.Ne1 Nc4 18.Nd3 with the idea Bf4 with a slight plus. 

The Stonewall is of course a solid opening, and in no way to be considered bad. But this kind of passive defence cannot be to anyones taste all the same…"

Another poster (Ponting is a legend) wrote:

"Here is a line I worked out: 1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 d5 5. 0-0 Bd6 6. c4 c6 7. Nc3 0-0 8. Qc2 Ne4 9. Rb1 Nbd7 10. b4 b5 11. cxb5 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 cxb5 13. Qc6 Nb6 14. Qxb5 Nc4 15. Qa4 Bd7 16. Qd1! Why autopin the queen? Retreat it to safety with an extra pawn. 16 …a5 17. b5; 16…Qe7 17. Nd2!; 16…Rb8 17. Bg5 Qe8 18. Bf4! Rxb4 19. Bxd6 Rxb1 20. Qxb1 Nxd6 21. Qb4 Qb8 22. Rb1 +/= Stable positional advantage for White."

And the same poster after a while:

"Or 21. Ne5 instead is probably even better. I’d much prefer White here."

These actions from the Qualitychess editors really earn our respect.


The comments failed to impress me.

1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 d5 5. 0-0 Bd6 6. c4 c6 7. Nc3 0-0 8. Qc2 Ne4 9. Rb1 Nbd7 10. b4 b5 11. cxb5 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 cxb5 13. Qc6 Nb6 14. Bg5, Qd7 15. Rfc1, Rb8 16. Qd7:, Bd7: 17. Ne1, a5 (Even after 17.., Nc4 18. Nd3 black can at almost any time play a5) 18. ba5:, Nc4 19. Bf4, Bf4: 20. gf4:, Ra8 and black achieves nice counterplay via the a-file.

1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 d5 5. 0-0 Bd6 6. c4 c6 7. Nc3 0-0 8. Qc2 Ne4 9. Rb1 Nbd7 10. b4 b5 11. cxb5 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 cxb5 13. Qc6 Nb6 14. Bg5, Qd7 15. Rfc1, Qc6: (This looks even more attractive because it keeps the rook on the a-file where it belongs for pushing the a-pawn) 16. Rc6:,Bb8 (16.., Nc4 is probably still good for a passive draw) 17. Ne1, Bd7 18. Rcc1, a5 19. Be7, Rc8 20. Bc5, Nc4 and again black has nice counterplay via the a-file.

1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 d5 5. 0-0 Bd6 6. c4 c6 7. Nc3 0-0 8. Qc2 Ne4 9. Rb1 Nbd7 10. b4 b5 11. cxb5 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 cxb5 13. Qc6 Nb6 14. Qb5:, Nc4 15. Ne5, Be5: 16. de5:, a5 17. a3, ab4: (Taking on e5 is also possible but easier is to liquidate the queenside and destroy white dreams.) 18. ab4:, Qe7 19. Qc5, Qc5: 20. bc5:, Rf7 and black will restore quickly material and obtain an equal position.

1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 d5 5. 0-0 Bd6 6. c4 c6 7. Nc3 0-0 8. Qc2 Ne4 9. Rb1 Nbd7 10. b4 b5 11. cxb5 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 cxb5 13. Qc6 Nb6 14. Qb5:, Nc4 15. Ne5, Be5: 16. de5:, a5 17. a3, ab4: 18. Qb4:, Qc7 19. Re1, Ra6 20. Bf4, Na3: and black again restored material and has obtained equalty.


1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 d5 5. 0-0 Bd6 6. c4 c6 7. Nc3 0-0 8. Qc2 Ne4 9. Rb1 Nbd7 10. b4 b5 11. cxb5 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 cxb5 13. Qc6 Nb6 14. Qb5:, Nc4 15. Qa4, Bd7 16. Qd1, Qb6 (Not mentioned by the poster 'Ponting is a legend' but looks to be a strong alternative.) 17. Qd3, a5 18. b5, a4 19. Ne5,Be5: 20. de5:, Ra5 and again black manages to equalise.

1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 d5 5. 0-0 Bd6 6. c4 c6 7. Nc3 0-0 8. Qc2 Ne4 9. Rb1 Nbd7 10. b4 b5 11. cxb5 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 cxb5 13. Qc6 Nb6 14. Qb5:, Nc4 15. Qa4, Bd7 16. Qd1, Rb8 (Even 16.., Qe7 17. Nd2, Nb6 18. b5, a6 19. ba6:, Ra6: 20. e3, Rb8 looks ok) 17. Bg5, Qb6 (Looks better than Qe8) 18. Bf4, Bf4: 19. gf4:, Rfc8 20. Qd3, Qd6 must be ok for black
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: New book - Win with the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #182 - 02/15/10 at 11:24:56
Post Tools
Quote:
After 13...Qc7!? 14.Qxb5 both 14...Rb8 15.Qa4 Nb6 16.Qa5 Rf7! with quite a bit compensation and 14...a5 15.Bd2 (15.bxa5 Ba6) 15...axb4 with good chances for an equal game, e.g. 16.Rfc1 Qd8 17.Bxb4 Bxb4 18.Rxb4 Rxa2, come into consideration. 


I disagree on that. Black has a passive position, don't you see? 14...Rb8 15.Qd3!? is an idea and 14...a5 ....18....Rxa2 19.Bf1 and White has a large initiative. For now i am sure that ...Ne4 is not the right way to go for Black. My discussion with Brabo all the summer i think that convinced a lot of people. We have to see Avrukh's analysis in the other lines also and compare them with our summer discusion in this thread. For example:
1. d4, f5 2.g3, Nf6 3. Bg2, e6 4. Nf3, d5 5. 0-0, Bd6 6. c4, c6 7. Qc2, 0-0 8. Nc3, Qe8 9. b3, b6 10. Ne5, Bb7 11. Bf4, Na6! is a move my great coach Nikos Karapanos proposed few weeks before he passed away and i still think that this is a viable option for Black. I like the Stonewall but i dont like staying passive in simplified possitions. At least stay passive when there is future potential in my position.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 16
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge