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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Chigorin transposition question (Read 12090 times)
Zatara
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #25 - 06/30/09 at 04:02:28
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@ Markovich:   What do you think of the Chigorin for Black after reading Marozovich's book??
Thanks,
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Papageno
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #24 - 06/27/09 at 17:43:40
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Just curious where (after 8. Bxd5) the substantial plus remains hidden in this line: 

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bf4 Bg4 4. e3 f6 5. Be2 e5 6. dxe5 Bxf3 7. Bxf3 fxe5 8. Bxd5 exf4 9. Qh5+ g6 10. Bxc6+ bxc6 11. Qe5+ Kf7 12. Qxh8 Nf6 13. Nc3 Qd7 14. Rd1 Qe6 15. O-O Re8

Isn't the white queen just trapped?


  
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #23 - 06/27/09 at 17:26:42
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Markovich wrote on 06/27/09 at 14:22:14:
I was doing some investigations and looking at 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bf4 Bg4 4.e3 f6!?.  There are a couple of games in my data base where Black was O.K. after 5...e5 6.dxe5 Bxf3 7.Bxf3 fxe5 8.Bg3?.  But both Whites overlooked 8.Bxd5! which ensures White a substantial plus.


Interesting. Is the idea 8.Bxd5 exf4 9.Qh5+ g6 10.Bc6+ bc6 11.Qe5+ Qe7 12.Qxh8 ? I´m not sure what happens with whites queen after 12...Nf6 followed by 0-0-0.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #22 - 06/27/09 at 14:22:14
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I was doing some investigations and looking at 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bf4 Bg4 4.e3 f6!?.  There are a couple of games in my data base where Black was O.K. after 5...e5 6.dxe5 Bxf3 7.Bxf3 fxe5 8.Bg3?.  But both Whites overlooked 8.Bxd5! which ensures White a substantial plus.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #21 - 06/25/09 at 12:33:01
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[quote author=nmga link=1245240716/15#20 date=1245865920]Does Moro mention 3 Nbd2?[/quote]

No, though there is a fairly lengthy treatment of 2.Nf3.  After 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 he plays 3...Bg4, not the 3...Bf5 discussed above.

I've spent some more time with this outstanding book.  It really is a great exposition of this system.

  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #20 - 06/24/09 at 17:52:00
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Does Moro mention 3 Nbd2?
  
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Markovich
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #19 - 06/24/09 at 17:43:11
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Just yestereday obtained a copy of Morozevich's Chigorin book, and I notice that he does advocate 2...Nc6 against 2.Nf3.  Preliminarily, it looks like a rather good book, though whether the Chigorin holds up, I have no idea.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #18 - 06/24/09 at 17:15:31
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Thanks Papageno. Now you mention it I dimly recall seeing this ... Fascinating stuff -- and a very pertinent answer to Markovich's original question perhaps.
  
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Papageno
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #17 - 06/24/09 at 07:16:16
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When annotating the game Meier-Cherniaev from 2008 (yes, at chesspublishing) Eric Prié comments on 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6?! (his punctuation):
"According to me this awkward queen's knight development only makes sense after 2.c4 because of the dynamic counter attack against the d4 pawn. Trying to adapt it to 2.Nf3 is tempting but should lead to an immediate disadvantage provided that the opponent is not too greedy and has correctly assimilated the ways to combat the proper Veresov with 3...Nbd7. (...)"
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #16 - 06/24/09 at 06:28:03
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[quote]After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6, I could be mistaken, but I believe it was Eric Prie who recommended that White treat the opening like a reversed-Veresov. 3.Nbd2 Bf5 4.c4 e6 5.a3 Nf6 6.e3, etc. [/quote]

This is much more to my taste! But I can't see many games with it, and none by Eric. Anyone know where he recommends it, if he does, and whether anyone's written anything about it?
  
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #15 - 06/22/09 at 12:01:28
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LeeRoth wrote on 06/21/09 at 23:50:33:
After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6, I could be mistaken, but I believe it was Eric Prie who recommended that White treat the opening like a reversed-Veresov. 3.Nbd2 Bf5 4.c4 e6 5.a3 Nf6 6.e3, etc.

Hang on a sec - when I play the Veresov, I treat it as a reversed Chigorin ...
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #14 - 06/21/09 at 23:50:33
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After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6, I could be mistaken, but I believe it was Eric Prie who recommended that White treat the opening like a reversed-Veresov. 3.Nbd2 Bf5 4.c4 e6 5.a3 Nf6 6.e3, etc.
  
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #13 - 06/19/09 at 20:25:45
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In the previos game my knight found a beautiful role on a5  Smiley
  
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #12 - 06/19/09 at 16:41:28
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It occurs to me that these positions with ...Bf5, ...Nc6, ...d5, ...e6 while White has Bf4, Nf3, Nc3, d4, c4, very typically arise from the Baltic.  I played this once with Black versus a 2300 and drew pretty easily, but I had the impression that my opponent didn't try very hard. In general I think it's +=.  That knight on c6 is worse than useless.  In my game, I eventually played it to e7.

  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Chigorin transposition question
Reply #11 - 06/19/09 at 15:20:32
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Thanks for the game Holbox. See what you mean. Is 3 Bf4 any less tedious (for either player) than 3 g3?
  
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