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Normal Topic C11:Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6 (Read 4774 times)
kylemeister
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Re: C11:Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6
Reply #9 - 04/28/24 at 14:20:09
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Historical bits about 7...cxd4 8. Nxd4 Qb6: it was "!? N" in the first NIC Yearbook 40 years ago, played by GM Hans Ree against IM Cornelis van Wijgerden in the 1983 Dutch championship. VW played 9. Qd2, and there was a note about 9. Be2.

But I see that it was played in a game Gelfer-McKay from the 1969 world student team championship, which saw 9. a3.
  
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RosemarysBaby
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Re: C11:Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6
Reply #8 - 04/28/24 at 05:03:08
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7...cxd4 8.Nxd4 Qb6 is I think currently the best reputed option, the directness makes the engines really happy, I think Matthew Sadler talks the line somewhere... can't remember where Sad

The idea is simply Bc5 overtaking d4. And of course using this move-order hits b2 at an opportune moment.
9.Ncb5 a6 10.Nf5 Bc5 11.Nbd6+ Kf8 12.Qh5 Nd8 13.Nxg7 Bxe3 14.Nxe6 fxe6 15.Qe8+ is a propetual
9.Na4 Qa5+ 10.Nc3 Qb6 just repeats

The 9.Be2 and 9.a3 are a bit less directly drawish, but with a few moves of book promise clean equality.

The mainline 9.Qd2 is pretty forcing up to:
9...Qxb2 10.Rb1 Qa3 11.Bb5 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 a6 13.Bxd7 Bxd7 14.Rb3 Qe7 15.Rxb7
Where black has 15...Qh4+ and 15...Qd8 16.O-O Qc8 or 16...Rc8 I believe they all should be fine for black, I think I recall Sadler recommending Qc8... the positions do remain tricky, but nowhere near Winaver levels of mystical.
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: C11:Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6
Reply #7 - 04/27/24 at 20:05:44
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I've always played the Winawer. However, the sharp poisoned pawn line runs deep so I'm considering something else. I think the McCutcheon is challenging for both players and would be worth a try. However, what to do about the Steinitz?

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 cd4 8. Nd4 Bc5 9. Qd2 O-O

This position gets reasonable win/loss results in human play. Stockfish does not like Black's chances, but playing Stockfish against Stockfisn yields eventual equality. Black does not seem to be pressured. From my initial perusal, it seems that both players are simply playing chess. There does not seem to be theory that one must learn.
  
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mcmug123
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Re: Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6....
Reply #6 - 07/10/09 at 06:57:01
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Myself, I would play 7...Be7. Neil McDonald's recent book provides good coverage.
  
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BlunderKing
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Re: Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6....
Reply #5 - 07/10/09 at 00:24:18
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Hello,

thanks a lot for your comments. And yes, i mean Boleslavsky line with f4 and Be3 for White. Sorry. I've played the chigorin a la Moro, so it should really be a good idea to have a look at his games. I like his active style. I've played nearly everything against e4: sicilian, scandinavian, pirc, modern,caro-kann, even Nc6. But never the french. I've a look at a6/Be7. Perhaps i've found my opening for the next years  Roll Eyes
  
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TN
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Re: Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6....
Reply #4 - 07/09/09 at 23:43:14
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I recommend that you play both 7...a6 and 7...Be7 because as far as I know, these are the two moves with the best theoretical reputation at present. In terms of model players, Morozevich is probably the best guide.
  

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MNb
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Re: Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6....
Reply #3 - 07/09/09 at 12:20:49
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I agree with Dom's last alinea. I have played the Classical for a few years as I like the idea of 7...a6 and 8...b5, starting an immediate counterattack. Twice White castled kingside, I thought I was OK and subsequently got creamed. That obviously only proves my lack of understanding. Still 3...Bb4 seems to suit me better.
So no advise from me this time.
  

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dom
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Re: Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6....
Reply #2 - 07/09/09 at 11:06:49
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The best one ... because it is the best  Cool
OK I know, it's lazy answer, but it's because question is inaccurate, and I am forced (as many readers) to guess, you mean: "in the "Boleslavsky line with f4 and Be3 for White".  No ?
White can play 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Nce2!?, system played by Anand (can lead to French Tarrasch ) and not sure some  moves you proposed in title are useful.
You must replace 7...dxc with 7..cxd.
****
All moves you gave are played in the Boleslavsky line and each one has specific purpose. One main plan for White is long castle (after Qd2) and an attack over the kingside castle, hence usually Black delays cxd4 till White engineers long castle, because closing with c5-c4 and starting attack with Bb4+Qa5 can lead to sharp attack for opposite castles. Another plan is early cxd4 to play Bc5 fighting for the a7-g1 diagonal and the d4 strong point control. Another plan is Qb6 for double-attack b2+d4 leading usually to native main lines of Boleslavsky with Na4 + c3. White can also use Be2 plan with short castle and quieter play...quieter because a d4 square blockade is more difficult to get (Nc3-Ne2-Nd4 impossible) and light square bishop is not well placed to counter f6 or f5.
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I usually replay to such post by "nobody can judge at current position. Propose one variation" or "which one do you like ?"..because you will choose one, only because you exactly know what are pros andcons for each one.
  

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jitb
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Re: Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6....
Reply #1 - 07/09/09 at 10:58:51
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7. ... cxd4, because it seems to be the most solid. However other moves are more exiting!! Smiley You could learn two moves, 7. ...cxd4 as your main weapon and something else against weaker players.

Good luck!! Wink
  
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BlunderKing
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C11:Steinitz: 7... a6, 7....Be7, 7...dxc, 7....Qb6
07/09/09 at 08:56:25
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Hello,

I'm going to add the french Stenitzl to my openings. Which 7. move would you recommend and why?

thank you!

Rainer

« Last Edit: 07/24/11 at 09:01:46 by dom »  
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