Hello! I tried to find something to add to the analysis but it seems that mr Buecker has done a good work and nothing to add from me! Maybe you'll wait for an idea to pop out of my head at the last moment!

I have a question to make if you could help me that concerns the Scotch gambit after 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4. I used to play here 4...Bb4 and after 5.c3 dxc3 6.bxc3 Qf6!? as Watson has recomended but i discovered that white has some interesting tries like 7.cxb4 or even 7.Bg5 when the situation gets highly unclear. By the way, Watson doesn't consider these two moves.

So, my question is: what do you recomend? 4...Bc5 5.c3 d6!? is an idea that several Hungarian GMs have used.

Also after 4...d6 and we have a position i think Marin has analysed in CBM 128 3.Bc4 d6!? but i haen't seen his analysis after 4.d4 cxd4 5.c3

Any help?????? 

linksspringer must have read Horowitz' book "Point Count Chess": the value of your position is measured by counting the number of squares attacked by your pieces. The diagrammed position could have been taken from that work as an extreme example...

Thanks Stefan! When I was examining 10.Bc1 / 13.b4, I had in mind something like the following if Black would play the knight to d7 (via c5 or f6):
(1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4 7.Nbd2
Bxd2 8.Bxd2 Nxe4 9.d5 Ne7 10.Bc1 O-O 11.O-O d6 12.Re1 Nc5 13.b4 Nd7)
15.a4 a5 (15...b6 16.a5) 16.b5 b6 17.Bb2 Bb7 18.Ra3 when I think that Black has a difficult defensive task.

To detract your attention from a topic that I should rather not have mentioned, here is a youtube video showing Dmitry Chuprov (right), the GM who used 7.Nbd2 twice in his tournament practice, playing blitz. I feel this belongs in the chat and not in the main thread, since they don't play the Pomtow Attack. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEVYQuo0a5I

May be i must disappoint you, but i haven't found an advantage against 8...Qh5

Here is my summary:

9.Nxe4 Be6 10.Bg5 Bd6 

A) 11.Bf6? Bxh2+!! -+ Karaklajic-Jovanovic, Palic 1996.

B) 11.h4 h6 12.Nxd6+ cxd6 13.Bf4 Qd5 Aleksic-Pavlovic, Becici 1993.

C) 11.Nxd6+ cxd6 12.Bf4 Qd5 

     C1) 13.Ng5 0-0 14.Ne4 Rfd8! =+ with black advantage

     C2) 13.c3

           C21) 13...Kd7 (Nigel Davies gives this move a !) but i am not so sure after 
                   14.Nxd4 Nxd4 15.cxd4 and then if 15...g5 16.Bd2!?

           C22) 13...Rc8 14.b3 +=

           C23) 13...Qf5!? is best in my opinion, e.g. 
                 
                 a) 14.Bg3 dxc3 15.Qxd6 cxb2
                 b) 14.Bxd6 0-0-0 15.Nxd4 Rxd6
                 c) 14.Qd2 dxc3 15.bxc3 0-0
                 d) 14.cxd4 Qxf4 15.d5 Nd8 Black holds the position after 16.g3 Qb4 17.Ng5 h6 18.Nxf7 Nxf7.
                       Black can also try 14...0-0-0 or 14...0-0 with good counterplay.

MNb wrote on 07/17/09 at 12:41:15:


Sorry - this reply comes late, since I took a short holiday. - Hi, Robert. I think I've found something for White (different from MNb's line above) which avoids said stale equality. It leads to unbalanced positions with mutual chances. Some friends agreed that it looked interesting. But I won't discuss it here, it's a line with surprise value which might gain me a few points.

sorry gewgaw, your line is fine, but i think that if anything, it is actually White who needs an equalizing line in this system  

just grab the pawn and let white show us his stuff:


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 Nf6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nbd2 Nxe4 8. d5 Ne7 9. 0-0 Nd2 10. Nd2 0-0 11. a3 

unfortunately white has to lose this tempo. I tried to make without this move, my most interesting effort being 11. Nb3 (denies another exchange, limits the Bb4 and heads for d4 to discourage the other bishop from developing naturally to f5) but black has the strong reply 11... Ng6 maintaining the options of Bd6 and Be7/Bf6

Some sample lines:
11.Nb3 Ng6
a)  12. a3
a1) 12... Bd6 may yield white enough counterplay to ... egualize, e.g.: 13.Nd4 Qf6 14. b4 a5 15. Bb2 ab4 (possibly not best but has fun) 16. ab4 Ra1 17. Ba1 (Qa1 fails due to 17...Nf4! 18. g3 Be5) ...b6 (Bb4 18. Ne6) 18. g3 (threatening Ne6) and now both Qg5 and Ne5 lead to complications but black seems to hold:
a1.1) 18... Qg5 19. Qc2 Bb7 20. Nf5 Ne7 21. Nd6 cd6 22. Qe4 Bd5 23. Bd5 Nd5 24. Rd1 Nf6 25. Qe7 Qh5 26. Qd6 Ne4 27. Qd7 Qe2 28. Qd4 f6 and black will draw easily with Qf3 and Ng5 to follow
a1.2) 18...Ne5 19. Be2 Re8 20.f4 Ng6 21. Ne6 Qe7 22. Ng7 Qe2 23. Ne8 Qe8 24. Re1 Qf8 25. f5 Bb4 26. fg6 fg6 27. Re3 (Rf1 does not work, 27... Qc5 28. Kg2 Bb7 and black wins) 27... Bc5 28. Bd4 Bb7 and this is at least equal for black.

a2) 12...Be7 looks stronger and simpler,e.g. 13. Be3 (13.Nd4 c5!) Re8 14. Re1 Bf6 15. Qd2 d6 16. Rac1 a6 17. Nd4 Nh4 18. Be2 (18. Bd3 Bh3) Nf5 =/+

b) 12. f4 this brutal attitude does not work either 12...Qf6 13. Be3 b6 [i was happy to lure Rybka into grabbing the pawn: 13...Qb2?! 14. Bd4 Bc3 15. Bc5 d6 (Re8 16. d6 and white is on top) 16. Rf2 Qa1 17. Na1 bc5 18. Nb3 Re8 19. Rf1 Bf5 20. Nc5 Rb8 21. d6 and white is better] 14. Bd4 (14. a3 Bd6 is better for black too) Qf5 15.Qf3 Bd6 16.g3 Bb7 and black's queen proves to be fine in f5, therefore black is just 1 pawn up

c) 12. Be3 may be best b6 13. Nd4 Bb7 14. Nf5 Qf6 15. Qc2 Ne7! (Ne5 16.Bd4 Bc5 17.Bc3 a5 18. Kh1 Bb4 19.Bd4 Bc5= )16. Ne7 Be7 but black still looks better


back to the "main line" 11. a3 Bd2 (natural and good IMO) 12. Bd2 d6 13. Re1 (Qb3 c5 also looks fine for black) ... Bf5
Ok, the engines see compensation here, mainly because of the bishop pair i guess, but i don't! Unless i can see a way for Bc4 to prove himself useful, i will not grant white any "bishop pair bonus". Even when black plays c5 (or c6) to relieve himself from pressure along the c file and white captures on c6, the white bishop does not become significantly active, while the mobile black center (pawns c6 and d6) looks fine.
If you compare this position with well known 7.Nc3 positions you will see that White's pressure succeeds most when he has got rid of the c4 bishop while black cannot develop his own on f5 but has to go for b6/Bb7...

play could continue 14. Qf3 Bg6 15.h4 h5 16.Bg5 f6 17. Bd2 Qd7 and if asked by his teenager son, White should not be able to explain why he is pawn down  

linksspringer wrote on 07/21/09 at 09:25:26:



You´re stubborn!
Maybe I need my other backup lines! 
How about 15. ...Bxd5!?
15. Bg5 Bxd5 16. Bxf6 Bxb3 17.
Bxe7 Bxd1 18. Bxd8 Bxf3 19. Bxc7 Bd5 20. Bxd6 Rfe8 =