ChessPub Forum - C54: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread

linksspringer Senior Member Offline Posts: 376 Joined: 09/25/07	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #29 - 07/21/09 at 09:25:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks gewgaw, a lot to look at. Still going through your variations, but looking at your mainline: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nbd2 Bxd2+ 8.Bxd2 Nxe4 9.d5 Ne7 10.Bc1 d6 11.O–O O–O 12.Re1 Nf6 13.b4 b5 14.Bb3 Bb7 15.Bg5 Nexd5 16.Bxd5 Bxd5 17.Bxf6 Bxf3 18.Bxd8 Bxd1 19.Bxc7 Did you consider 19.Be7 as well?


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gewgaw God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 687 Location: europe Joined: 09/09/04	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #28 - 07/21/09 at 08:40:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	Addition to equalizer-line Nomination#1: [10.Bc1] [C54] 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nbd2 Bxd2+ 8.Bxd2 Nxe4 9.d5 Ne7 10.Bc1 d6 11.0–0 0–0 12.Re1 Nf6 [12...Nc5 Of course possible, but White has more chances for compensation after this move 13.b4 Nd7 14.Qd2 b6 (14...Ng6 15.Bb2 Nde5 16.Nxe5 Nxe5 17.Bxe5 (17.Bf1!? Bd7 (17...Bf5 18.Bxe5 dxe5 19.Rxe5 Qd7 20.Qf4 g6 21.h3 Rae8 22.Rae1 Qd6 23.Qd4 Rxe5 24.Rxe5 Rd8 25.Bc4=) 18.Rac1 This is the kind of position White aims for.) 17...dxe5 18.Rxe5 Qd6 19.Rae1 Bd7=) 15.Bb2 a5 16.a3 axb4 17.axb4 Rxa1 18.Rxa1 Bb7 19.Bb3 Re8 20.Rc1 Ne5 21.Nxe5 dxe5 22.Bxe5 Nxd5 23.Bxc7 Qe7 24.Bxd5 Bxd5 25.f3 b5 26.Bb6 Bc4=] 13.b4 [13.Bg5 Ng6 14.Qd4 c5 15.dxc6 bxc6 16.Bb3 (16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.Qxf6 gxf6³; 16.Rac1 h6 17.Bxf6 Qxf6 18.Qxf6 gxf6 19.Bb3 Bd7 20.Ba4 Rfc8 21.Red1 d5 22.Nd4 Rab8 23.Bxc6 Bxc6 24.Rxc6 Rxc6 25.Nxc6 Rxb2³) 16...c5 17.Bxf6 Qxf6 18.Qxf6 gxf6 19.Rad1 Rd8 20.Nd2 f5 21.Nc4 d5 22.Na5 d4 23.Rc1 Nf4 24.Nc6 Rf8 25.Bc4 Kg7 26.Bf1 Ne6 27.Bd3 Bb7 28.Ne5 Bd5 29.Bxf5 Bxa2 30.Nd7 Rfd8 31.Bxe6 Bxe6 32.Nxc5 Bf5 33.Red1 d3 34.Rd2] 13...b5 Seems the easiest line for = [13...Ng6 14.Bb2 c6 15.dxc6 bxc6 16.Rc1 d5 17.Bd3 Bd7 White´s compensation isn´t obvious, at least =, maybe even better for Black; 13...c6 14.dxc6 bxc6 15.Bg5 Ng6 16.Qd4 h6 17.Bxf6 Qxf6 18.Qxf6 gxf6 =; Black can go for more;] 14.Bb3 [14.Bxb5 Rb8 15.Qd3 (15.a4 Nexd5 16.Nd4 Nxb4 17.Ba3 Nfd5 18.Nc6 Nxc6 19.Qxd5 Ne7µ; 15.Nd4 Bd7 16.Bxd7 Qxd7 17.Bb2 Nexd5³) 15...Bd7 16.Bc4 Rxb4 17.Bg5 Bf5 18.Qd4 c5 19.dxc6 Nxc6 20.Qc3 (20.Bxf6 Nxd4 21.Bxd8 Nc2µ) 20...h6 21.a3 Rb8 22.Nh4 Bh7 23.Bxf6 Qxf6 24.Qxf6 gxf6³] 14...Bb7 15.Bg5 Nexd5 16.Bxd5 Bxd5 17.Bxf6 Bxf3 18.Bxd8 Bxd1 19.Bxc7 Bg4 20.f3 Be6 21.Bxd6 Rfd8 22.Bc5=

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linksspringer Senior Member Offline Posts: 376 Joined: 09/25/07	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #27 - 07/17/09 at 15:42:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	I had some fun looking at parking the bishop on c1 to keep the e-file open and the knights out of the bishop's hair. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nbd2 Bxd2+ 8.Bxd2 Nxe4 9.d5 Ne7 10.Bc1!? 0-0 10.0-0 a) 11...Nd6 12.Bd3!? b6? (Rybka falls for this) 13.Bxh7+! b) 11...d6 12.Re1 Nf6 13.Bg5 perhaps this gives slightly better chances compared to the Be3 version (compare gewgaw #25 above), although I am not optimistic about proving a White advantage. edit: perhaps the space grabbing 13.b4 deserves attention - aaah more fun


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10756 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #26 - 07/17/09 at 12:41:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	CaptainFuture wrote on 07/16/09 at 11:14:45: Hi all, Hi Stefan, the main problem with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 is the move in the Two Knights 5...Nxe4. You have debated about 8...Qd8 and 8...Qh5. May be there are lines for white to get an advantage. But for 30 years i am searching for a reply against 8...Qa5. As has been pointed out Qa5 is the most played move. So we have to focus on this first. After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.O-O Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3 Qa5 9.Nxe4 Be6 10.Neg5 O-O-O 11.Nxe6 fxe6 12.Rxe6 Bd6 13.Bg5 i have analysed the position again and again. But nothing is promising. The endings are all equal. And i do not trust 10.Bd2. Black has some possibilities to take over the initiative. I even think that black is =+ after 10.Bd2. So what is your suggestion that gives white an edge? with kind regards, Robert Ahoy Captain, the reason that we don't debate 8...Qa5 is that the problem has been solved. As I'm at work you will have to wait a couple of hours, then I can look up the line. There is one point though. Nobody claims an advantage, neither after 8...Qa5, nor after 8...Qd8 nor after 8...Qh5. The question is if White can avoid stale equality. Rook endgames with all four centre pawns removed and equal activity are not interesting. But after 8...Qa5 9.Nxe4 Be6 10.Neg5 0-0-0 11.Nxe6 we get positions with opposite castling, an asymmetrical pawn structure and mutual attacks. Above a certain level that won't be enough either to create winning chances but on my level still anything can happen. Edit: 11...fxe6 12.Rxe6 Qf5 (Bd6 13.Bg5 and 14.Qe2 is fun - endgame, what endgame?) 13.Qe2 h6 14.Re4 g5 15.Bd2 Bg7 (Bc5 16.Re1 Rhf8 17.h3 Rg8 18.Ne5 Wecker-Hausman, corr 1964) 16.Re1 Bf6 17.h3 h5 18.h4 g4 19.Ng5 Engelbert-Kreutzkamp, 1993, is the kind of equality I don't mind at all, especially given my opinion that the Two Knights Game is equal anyway.
	« Last Edit: 07/17/09 at 20:16:03 by MNb »
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gewgaw God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 687 Location: europe Joined: 09/09/04	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #25 - 07/17/09 at 05:42:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	Addition to equalizer-line Nomination#1: [C54] 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nbd2 Bxd2+ 8.Bxd2 Nxe4 9.d5 Ne7 10.Be3 d6 11.0–0 [11.Qc2 Nc5 12.Nd4 (12.b4 Nd7 13.0–0 0–0 14.Rae1 (14.Rac1 Nb6 15.Rfe1 Bf5 16.Qb3 Re8 17.Nd4 Nxc4 18.Qxc4 Be4 19.Nb5 Bxd5 20.Qxc7 Nf5³) 14...Nb6 (14...h6 15.Bd4 Nb6 16.Bb3 (16.Qb3 Bf5³) 16...Nexd5³) 15.Bd3 h6 16.Bd4 (16.Bxb6 axb6 17.Be4 (17.Rc1 Nxd5–+) 17...Re8 18.Nd4 (18.Rc1 f5 19.Bd3 Nxd5µ) 18...Bd7 19.Re3 c6 20.dxc6 bxc6 21.b5 d5 22.Bh7+ Kh8 23.bxc6 Nxc6 24.Nxc6 Bxc6 25.Qxc6 Rxe3 26.fxe3 Kxh7 27.Rxf7 Rxa2³) 16...Nexd5 (16...Nbxd5³) 17.a3 (17.Bh7+ Kh8 18.a3 Re8 19.h3 Rxe1 20.Rxe1 Be6³) 17...a5 18.b5 Bd7³ (18...Nf4³) ) 12...a6 13.b4 Nd7 14.0–0 0–0 15.a4 a) 15.Bg5 15...Nb6 –0.41 15...Re8 16.Rac1 h6 17.Bxe7 Rxe7 18.Nf5 Re5³ (18...Re8³) ; b) 15.Rfe1 Nb6 16.Bg5 Re8 17.Bb3 h6 18.Bxe7 Rxe7 19.Rxe7 Qxe7 20.Qc3 Qg5³; 15...Re8 (15...Nb6³) 16.Rfe1 (16.a5 h6 17.Rfe1 Nf6 18.Qb3 Nf5 19.Nxf5 Bxf5³) 16...h6 17.Rac1 Nb6 18.a5 (18.Bb3 Nbxd5³) 18...Nbxd5 19.Qb3 c6 20.Bd2 Bg4 (20...Bd7³) 21.Qg3 Qd7 22.h3 Bh5 23.Bxh6 Bg6 24.Bg5 Nf5 25.Nxf5 Qxf5³] 11...0–0 12.Re1 [12.h3 Nf5 13.Bf4 a5 14.Re1 (14.Qc2 Nc5 15.Rfe1 Nh4³) 14...Nc5 15.Rc1 h6 16.Qc2 Bd7³ (16...Nh4 17.Nxh4 Qxh4³) ] 12...Bg4 13.h3 [13.Rc1 Nf5 14.Bf4 Re8 15.h3 Bxf3 16.Qxf3 Nh4 17.Qd3 Nc5=] 13...Bh5 14.Rc1 [14.Bd3 Nf6 (14...f5!?) 15.g4 (15.Bc4 Re8 16.Bg5 Nd7 17.Rc1 h6³) 15...Bg6 16.Bc4 Re8 17.Qb3 a6³ 18.Qxb7 Qd7 19.Qb3 Nxg4 20.Bd4 Nh6µ; 14.g4 Bg6 15.Qb3 a6 16.Rad1 Qd7 17.Bd3 f5 18.Bxe4 fxe4 19.Ng5 Qb5 20.Ne6 Qxb3 21.axb3 Rf3 22.Ng5 Rf6³ 0.07/14 ] 14...Qd7 [14...a6 15.Bd3 Nf6=] 15.g4 [15.Bd4 Ng5 16.Be2 Bxf3 17.Bxf3 c5 (17...Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Rfe8 19.Qb3 c6 20.dxc6 bxc6 21.Qa4 Nf5³) 18.dxc6 Nxf3+ 19.Qxf3 bxc6³] 15...Bxg4 [15...Bg6 16.Nh4 (16.Nd2 Nxd2 17.Qxd2 f5) 16...f5 17.f3 (17.Nxg6 Nxg6 18.Bd3 Nh4 19.f3 Nc5³) 17...Nf6 18.Bd4 a6 19.Re6 Rf7 20.Nxg6 Nxg6 21.Bxf6 Rxf6 22.Rxf6 gxf6 23.Bd3 fxg4 24.hxg4 Re8³] 16.hxg4 Qxg4+ 17.Kf1 Qh3+ [17...Nf5 18.Bd3 Qh3+ 19.Kg1 Qg4+=] 18.Ke2 Rae8 19.Bd3 Nxd5 20.Bxe4 Nxe3 21.Kxe3 Qf5 22.Kd2 Rxe4 23.Rxe4 Qxe4 24.Rxc7 d5 25.Rxb7 Qf4+ 26.Kc2 [26.Ke1 Re8+ 27.Kf1 Qc4+ 28.Kg2 Qg4+=] 26...Rc8+ 27.Kd3 Qc4+ [27...g5!?] 28.Kd2 Qf4+ = ----- I think Black has nothing to fear after 10.Be3; in most lines Black is slightly better and can go for an easy draw or can take some minor risks to get even more. White is a pawn down and sets all hopes to the d5 pawn; the more I analyse this position, the weaker seems the pawn and consequently the whole white position. In general Black has to avoid moves like b7b6 or Ne4-d6, because they lead to disharmony, even if they are rybka´s first choice quite often.

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CaptainFuture YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 18 Location: Germany Joined: 03/25/09 Gender:	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #24 - 07/16/09 at 11:14:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hi all, Hi Stefan, the main problem with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 is the move in the Two Knights 5...Nxe4. You have debated about 8...Qd8 and 8...Qh5. May be there are lines for white to get an advantage. But for 30 years i am searching for a reply against 8...Qa5. As has been pointed out Qa5 is the most played move. So we have to focus on this first. After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.O-O Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3 Qa5 9.Nxe4 Be6 10.Neg5 O-O-O 11.Nxe6 fxe6 12.Rxe6 Bd6 13.Bg5 i have analysed the position again and again. But nothing is promising. The endings are all equal. And i do not trust 10.Bd2. Black has some possibilities to take over the initiative. I even think that black is =+ after 10.Bd2. So what is your suggestion that gives white an edge? with kind regards, Robert


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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #23 - 07/16/09 at 05:31:00	Post Tools	Print Post
	In the last line both sides have alternatives (25. Re1+ is equal; 23...Rb5), but altogether White seems to be OK, and the practical chances must be good. Another option for Black (and now - since you cured Qd6 - perhaps more unpleasant for White) is 13...Be6 (instead of 13...Qd6 or 13...0-0) 14.Bg5 Qc8 15.Bf4 (or 15.Be3 0-0 16.Ng5) 15...Kf8, e.g.: (a) 16. Qg5 (with plans like h4) Qd8! 17.Qxd8+ Rxd8 18.Bxc7 Rc8 =+ (b) 16.Be3 (16. Bg5; 16. Bd2) Kg8 17.Re1 or maybe 16...f4.


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Stefan Buecker

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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #22 - 07/16/09 at 02:42:27

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MNb wrote on 07/16/09 at 01:01:48:

Isn't 12.Qh5+ Ng6 13.Nf3 Qd6! 14.Be3 Bd7 15.Rd1 Qf8 16.Qg5 Qe7 17.Nd5 playable? The queens are exchanged, but the other white pieces are quite active.

Apparently 17...Qxg5 18.Nxg5 0-0 (18...Rc8 19.Bc5 Bb5 20.Ne6) 19.Nxc7 Rad8 is critical, and in the further course of events White is hampered by the unfortunate situation of his king: 20.Bxa7 Bc6 21.Bd4 Rd6 22.Nce6 Re8 23.f3 h6 24.Nxg7 Rxd4 25.Rxd4 Kxg7 26.Nh3 Re2 27.Rc4 Bd5 28.Rc7+ Kf6 29.a3 (29.Kf1 Rd2 30.Nf2 Bc6) 29...Bc6 30.b4 Re1+ 31.Kf2 Rc1 32.Ke3 Ra1 33.Kd4 (the "forced activity" of White's king, in contrast to his foregoing restriction on the first rank, is funny) 33...Ra2. Maybe 33.Kd2 offers better chances for a draw: 33...Rxa3 34.Rh7 Ra2 35.Rxh6 Kg7 36.Rh5 etc.

I'll look at the exchange sacrifice again, when I have more time. In the 12.Bf4 line I also have the impression that the "worst case" scenario with active knights, but only a pawn for the exchange, isn't too bad for White - in 8 games out of ten he should get a draw. The problem with using chess software is that it lets too many things appear very easy. Fighting with rooks against these active knights can be an unpleasant experience in practice - so many forks... And in a game many players will prefer the "safe" 13...Kf8, instead of the correct 13...Qe7.

Edit: An even bigger problem with chess software is that sometimes I forget to look at the screen. After your 17.Nd5 Qxg5, the continuation 18.Nxc7+! is stronger and was probably your intention. 18...Kd8 19.Ne6+ Ke7 20.Nexg5 Rhc8 and here we have several interesting possibilities, like 21.Nxh7 Rxc2 22.Nhg5 Rxb2 23.h4 Bc6 24.Bc5+ Ke8 25.Ne6 Kf7 26.Nfg5+ Kg8 27.h5

27...Nh8 28.Bd4 Rb4 29.a3 Rc4 30.Bxg7 Rg4 31.h6 Rxg2+ 32.Kf1 Rh2, e.g. 33.h7+ or 33.Rd6!, about =. Chess is a fascinating game. No doubt that after your 17.Nd5 endless analyses are possible, hard to believe that it should not be a good weapon for OTB play!

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10756 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #21 - 07/16/09 at 01:01:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Gewgaw was joking - he is the only nominee thus far. I hope to prove an edge for Black. But I need time to check my idea as well. Isn't 12.Qh5+ Ng6 13.Nf3 Qd6! 14.Be3 Bd7 15.Rd1 Qf8 16.Qg5 Qe7 17.Nd5 playable? The queens are exchanged, but the other white pieces are quite active.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #20 - 07/15/09 at 22:39:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	I disagree - I have some ideas of my own, I just need to a) decide which novelty to nominate b) Analyse them in more detail. I haven't looked at your 12...a5 idea yet, although 10.Be3 is probably the critical test.

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gewgaw God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 687 Location: europe Joined: 09/09/04	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #19 - 07/15/09 at 14:07:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	Okay, everything has been said, conclusions and nominations are made - time for the poll!

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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #18 - 07/15/09 at 07:34:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	Perhaps there is an alternative. After 8...Qd8 9.Rxe4+ Be7 10.Nxd4 f5 White has the adventurous exchange sacrifice 11.Rxe7+!?. Maybe that would be more to the taste of your son? (Ernst Grünfeld in his "Taschenbuch der Eröffnungen" of the 1950ies even attributed an ! to Rxe7+ in the Canal version of this position, i. e. with an additional black pawn on c4. It's a hint that this sacrifice is difficult to assess...). After 11...Nxe7 (11...Qxe7? 12.Nd5) there are two moves: (a) 12. Bg5 0-0 13.Ndb5 Qxd1+ 14.Rxd1 Ng6 15. Nxc7 Rb8 16.h4 f4! was in Kais. 28 (after a few more moves: "=", in reality it's closer to =+). (b) Today I find 12.Qh5+ (not in Kais. 28) more interesting: 12...Ng6 (12...g6? 13.Qh4 +=) 13. Nf3 0-0 14.Ng5 h6 15.Qxg6 hxg5 16.Bxg5 Qd7 (16...Qe8 17.Qxe8 Rxe8 18.Nb5) 17.Bf4 c6 18.Be5. For example: 18...Qf7 19.Qg5 Re8 (19...f4? 20.Ne4) 20.f4 Qe7 21.Qg6 and now Black may have nothing better than to take the draw by repetition of moves 21...Qf7. - I don't know whether I'd like to play on with either side. But young players are often overaggressive, and here Black is materially "better", so strange things might happen. This line could be an alternative for the rare case that 8...Qd8 is played. Black has to find ten moves to equalize, and not all of them are obvious! Edit: Apparently Gutman ignored 12.Qh5+ Ng6 13.Nf3 for a reason: 13...Qd6! 14.Be3 Bd7 15.Rd1 Qf8 16.Qg5 Qe7 17.Qh5 Bc6 18.Qxf5 Qf6 -/+ refutes White's gambit. (c) The alternative 12.Bf4!? Ng6 13.Qe2+ also doesn't win: (c1) After 13...Kf8 White has another fascinating gambit in 14.Be3 f4 15.Qc4 fxe3 16.fxe3 Qd7 17.Rf1+ Ke8 18.Ncb5 c6 19.Nd6+! Kd8 20.Nf7+ Kc7 21.Nxh8 Nxh8 22.Rf8 Qe7 = 23.Ne6+!? Bxe6 24.Qf4+ Kb6 25.Rxa8. (c2) 13...Qe7! 14.Qxe7+ Kxe7 15.Nd5+ Kd7 16.Nxc7 (16.Bxc7!? b6 17.Bg3 Bb7 18.Nf4 Nxf4 19.Bxf4 g5! 20.Bxg5 Rag8 21.Rd1 Kc8 22.h4 h6 23.Nxf5 hxg5 24.Ne7+ Kc7 25.Nxg8 Rxg8 26.h5 =+, in real life it must be a draw) 16...Rb8 17.Nce6 Nxf4 18.Nxf4 g5 19.Nd3 or 19.Nh5. In both cases Black is slightly better.
	« Last Edit: 07/15/09 at 10:11:19 by Stefan Buecker »

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10756 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #17 - 07/15/09 at 01:26:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	Probably, I don't know from memory and am too lazy to check. Let me be a bit more specific about my problem with 8...Qd8. I have a son, 14 years old, not exceptionally talented but still enjoying chess a lot. A couple of months ago he has asked me to offer him a repertoire. I strongly have considered this 2Knight and Italian stuff (7.Nbd2 would fit nicely). Now every parent knows how critical teenagers can be. -Dad, this endgame after 8...Qd8, why do you think it better for White? (teenagers don't care about nuances like slight edges) -Eehh well, GM Gutman and FM Bücker say so. -Nice Dad, they aren't around. You have to tell me why. -Mumble mumble good for your endgame skills mumble mumble -Sure Dad, but shouldn't you teach me? -It is not likely that you will meet this line. 8...Qa5 is much more popular. -Next weekend I have a tournament in Paramaribo. Those guys know their theory (they don't, but try to tell that to a teenager). So what if someone plays it? How should I continue? -More mumble mumble try out in your games mumble mumble -How do you mean Dad, try out? Do you know yourself? And once again poor Dad (me) is gobsmacked. Well, I offered him the Danish Gambit (4.Nxc3). Then I am pretty sure I have decent answers to his questions. And believe me, it took me a long time to convince him of the advantages of 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Bc4 compared to 5.Nf3 (but Dad ....).

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SWJediknight God Member Offline Alert... opponent out of book! Posts: 915 Joined: 03/14/08	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #16 - 07/15/09 at 00:11:00	Post Tools	Print Post
	Would that be the one arising after 8...Qh5 9.Nxe4 Be6 10.Bg5 Bb4 11.Nxd4?


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10756 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread Reply #15 - 07/14/09 at 23:59:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/14/09 at 23:09:14: But are you not too perfectionistic? To have a slightly better ending is quite normal. Even more important is what SWJediknight writes. For every 8...Qd8 game that you'll face with White, you'll get four games with 8...Qh5 and ten(!) games with 8...Qa5 (says MegaBase 2008). Under these circumstances, should you worry about 8...Qd8 being only +0.15? This is not the way I look at it. Those two games I mentioned above don't give an objective advantage either, but I see how to pose my opponent some problems. I am not impressed because I am not perfectionist enough to create winning chances in that endgame GM Gutman and you rate slightly better. In other words, my chess horizon is too limited once again. I should note that I would not mind some other endgames arising after 3...Nf6 4.d4. For instance there is a line that ends with Black having an isolated e-pawn. It's not much, but it is something and enough to bully my opponent for a long time in practice.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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