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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C54: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread (Read 102930 times)
Gorath
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #59 - 08/11/09 at 21:56:17
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I'm sorry to hear this. Sad My condolences.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #58 - 08/11/09 at 21:47:31
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That's very sad - my condolences.
  
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MNb
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #57 - 08/11/09 at 20:32:15
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Michael Ayton speaks for me as well.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #56 - 08/11/09 at 20:18:42
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I'm really sorry to hear about this, Ametanoitos -- you have my sincere condolences.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #55 - 08/11/09 at 20:08:10
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I would like to make some comments about our nomination but sometimes in life very bad things happen. My coach was playing in the Acropolis Open, the most historical and strong tournament held in Greece and he passed away during his game just two moves before he forces the resignation from his opponent......

This sad event has socked the chess community in Greece! My coach has been mentioned many many times by me in my posts. He has helped us many times to discover ideas. Especially in the KID section i have posted many wonderfull ideas of his that has caused the admiration of many of the members of this forum....I wish i could show him the position of the competition. He would solve the case in just a second. Im sure....

GM Grivas is one of his childhood friends and he had a reaally bad time when he was waiting in the hospital to hear some good news...but at the end these good news were not coming and he almost had a heart attack himself for losing one of his best friends.....Sorry i writte these things here, but i am in a complete sock. My coach Nikos Karapanos was like my big brother, my best friend, my mentor and many other things.

This is what GM Grivas writtes about the incident
http://tournaments.chessdom.com/acropolis-2009
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #54 - 08/11/09 at 18:59:01
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Not "four days", there is only the Wednesday left to nominate an idea. Very inventive, gewgaw...

gewgaw wrote on 08/11/09 at 15:39:06:
One can argue, but maybe Mr. Bücker it was a mistake to overflood the members with so many variations so they werent motivated to find minor novelties only. From a scientific standpoint it is for sure the right approach, but obviously it didnt work.

Maybe you are right. However, I still believe it is relatively easy to improve upon my analysis. Someone rated 1800 should perhaps need 15 minutes to detect a new idea. No spectacular refutation, but s.th. of interest. Why should it be necessary to play through all the games and analyses? One could concentrate on one of the files and check only one of the many loose ends. - In my opinion, linksspringer's 10.Bc1 or a similar "human" idea would be a good candidate for such a competition.
  
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gewgaw
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #53 - 08/11/09 at 15:39:06
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Four Days to go and we´ve just three nominations!

Wake up, get up, stand up community this is far too less!

One can argue, but maybe Mr. Bücker it was a mistake to overflood the members with so many variations so they werent motivated to find minor novelties only. From a scientific standpoint it is for sure the right approach, but obviously it didnt work.

So far just my nomination was discussed by other forum members and @linksspringer suggested the surprising 10.Bc1!? I still think black has nothing to fear, but this move was the only one, which really surprised me, which leads me to the unavoidable question, is this is enough for a competition and do you expect more?

gewgew
  

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Ametanoitos
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #52 - 07/31/09 at 16:17:48
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We have found some great ideas for Black and White while we were searching for this line. Some of the ideas are really strong and engines don't even smell them!  Grin Luzin now is working some details because we put the ideas into a practical examination (we simply asked for some strong local chessplayers to defend the White side to see what they will come up!).
    We cannot ofcourse analyse all the lines deaply because there is simply a massive amount of different continuations which are not forced in character but the general conclusion seems to be that even though White has some compensation it is not enough. He has just enough compensation to stop Black to put in use his material advantage immediatelly but it seems to us that he cannot use this compensation to cause weaknesses in Blacks camp, so if Black is carefull he will win or draw the game and only if he blunders he will lose. The strenght of our idea is that after Nbd2 the position in which we will nominate our move is forced for White, which means that White has not other interesting alternatives. Please wait a day or maybe two.... Smiley as it is difficult for us to switch our brains from holidays mode to Kaissiber Competition mode!
  
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #51 - 07/31/09 at 13:40:39
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/28/09 at 11:48:05:
There are 15 days left until the competition ends. Are there still any attempts on the way to prove an advantage for Black? Both Gary Kasparov in the predecessors series (vol. 1) and John Nunn in his "Secrets of GM..." had made it clear that they didn't believe in the Möller Attack 7.Nc3 ... 9.d5. The system later even earned a -/+ in "Nunn's Chess Openings". 


Although I don't believe in the Moller Attack I'm surprised at the -/+.  I always thought that after 9.d5 Bf6 (9...Ne5 is probably = to =+ with best play) 10.Re1 Ne7 11.Rxe4 d6 12.Bg5 Bxg5 13.Nxg5 h6, 14.Qe2 hxg5 15.Re1 Be6 16.dxe6 f6 and 14.Bb5+ Bd7 15.Qe2 Bxb5 16.Qxb5+ Qd7 17.Qxb7 (17.Qe2? Kf8!) 17...0-0 both led to =+. 

Will be interested to see Ametanoitos and Luzin's line against 7.Nbd2 as to my eye the line is looking fairly promising for White (from the perspective of being satisfied with dynamic equality) at the moment.
  
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #50 - 07/31/09 at 09:08:26
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Great - so there is still hope for Black's cause.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #49 - 07/30/09 at 11:35:41
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I have contacted Luzin and we are about to make a nomination about the line he has recomended. We are working the details at present. So..... Wink
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #48 - 07/28/09 at 11:48:05
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There are 15 days left until the competition ends. Are there still any attempts on the way to prove an advantage for Black? Both Gary Kasparov in the predecessors series (vol. 1) and John Nunn in his "Secrets of GM..." had made it clear that they didn't believe in the Möller Attack 7.Nc3 ... 9.d5. The system later even earned a -/+ in "Nunn's Chess Openings". If the Möller Attack isn't taken serious anymore, I had expected that the members would try harder to prove the 7. Nbd2 gambit wrong. OK, it may be premature to draw conclusions.

Another question. The character of this second topic is quite different from the first competition (French, 6.dxc5). It is simpler to choose an "already existing" topic, as in the first competition, e.g.: "Search for new ideas in the IZ of the Dutch Defence." For the 2nd competition I thought it would be more inspiring to start in the wilderness. Have you already formed an opinion which of the two models is better suited for you? - If you feel that my analyses spoiled the "unknown territory", I may add that it wouldn't be difficult to find a rare system for the 3rd competition and then give you nothing but a starting point.
  
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #47 - 07/26/09 at 05:59:50
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Ametanoitos wrote on 07/25/09 at 13:14:08:
I tried to find something to add to the analysis but it seems that mr Buecker has done a good work [...]

Oh no, that's untrue! My analysis is full of mistakes, as always.

What I did was to check whether 7.Nbd2 is ridiculous or playable. In my opinion, it is the latter. But I still can't say whether it's +=, = or =+. Maybe this thread contains too many of my war-cries that White isn't worse. Obviously I had feared that a few loud claims of the gambit's incorrectness would deter too many who otherwise might be interested to compete. But now we have seen that the system cannot easily be refuted, thus I now step aside and won't comment anymore on nominated ideas until the competition ends.

You really shouldn't trust my analyses. Remember what Eric Schiller and Joel Benjamin wrote (Unorthodox Openings, London 1987, p. 126): "As usual with Bücker, however, his exhaustive analysis of the early stages of the game is quite good, but deteriorates as he moves deeper into the game and the number of candidate move dwindles. So [...] we follow the path of the main line a bit and then turn off when greener pastures are spotted."

This thread already uncovered my knack for b7-b6, a strange move also favoured by Rybka... (Never heard that name.) Another thread had the following:

Bibs wrote on 06/26/09 at 12:57:48:
And a recent 'give good analysis and win a goldfish' thread here instigated by Bucker which led to some interesting discussion.

That's the picture! Poor Bücker, desparately searching for the members' advice.
« Last Edit: 07/26/09 at 08:27:07 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #46 - 07/25/09 at 16:35:38
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I think the Scotch Gambit line 4...Bb4+ 5.c3 dxc3 6.bxc3 Qf6 7.Bg5 is great for White, which is why I don't trust Watson's ...Qf6 here.  Also MNb mentioned in another thread that 6.0-0 Qf6 7.Nxc3 Nxc3 8.bxc3 transposes to a sub-optimal line of the Goring Gambit (4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 Bb4 6.Bc4 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Qf6 [7...d6 is best here] 8.0-0).  4...Bb4+ is a playable move, but it is certainly risky.

I think 5.c3 d6 6.cxd4 is better for White than the standard lines of the Giuoco Piano and would not recommend it for Black.
  
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MNb
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Re: Kaissiber Competition Chat Thread
Reply #45 - 07/25/09 at 13:37:43
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1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.c3 d6 6.cxd4 transposes to a variation of the Italian: 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 d6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4.
The right approach is this. What do you play against the Italian proper? That will determine your choice against the Scotch Gambit.

Another example is 3.Bc4 d6 4.d4 exd4. This is probably not as good as 4...Bg4. At the other hand 5.c3 can be answered with Ne5! White's best is to head for the Hungarian with 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 d6 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Nc3 Be7. This is usually assessed as comfortably +=.

In my opinion Black should either play the Italian Giuoco Piano (3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4) or the Two Knights (3...Nf6). Both can be reached via the Scottish Gambit. So why should Black pose him/herself an extra problem?

At the other hand this means that everyone considering the Pomtow-Attack also should consider the transposition via the Scotch Gambit. The main disadvantage is 4.Ng5 vs. the Two Knights not being available.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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