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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) London System Question (Read 8144 times)
MNb
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Re: London System Question
Reply #14 - 08/05/09 at 21:10:50
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Guess what I play after 1.e4 ? And yes, I have delivered a few early mates after 1.e4 e6 last ten years, though not as much as I would like. That includes the Exchange. After 1.d4 e6 2.d4 d5 my results are better than after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5. What should be the reason, you think?
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #13 - 08/05/09 at 09:08:29
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MNb wrote on 08/04/09 at 02:36:08:
I love to play against the London - 1...e6; 2...f5; 3...Nf6; and I begin thinking about how to initiate a mad attack with a bad attitude. And I love the opponent's reaction: "I was playing the London - I am not supposed to find myself in a mess that early."

Right, after 2.e4 i think that not even your bad attitude will help you launch a mating attack from the French defence.
  
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MNb
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Re: London System Question
Reply #12 - 08/04/09 at 02:36:08
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I love to play against the London - 1...e6; 2...f5; 3...Nf6; and I begin thinking about how to initiate a mad attack with a bad attitude. And I love the opponent's reaction: "I was playing the London - I am not supposed to find myself in a mess that early."
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #11 - 08/03/09 at 19:35:26
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Anonymous3 wrote on 07/24/09 at 19:56:13:
but I think 6 Qb1!? will only give White equality at best.

if white ends up equal then the London System has fully achieved its purposes.  right?  i play the London system as like my 4th-string opening, mainly against wannabe attacking maniacs with a bad attitude.  IMO the off-the-board "annoyance" factor is the primary feature of this opening.  i.e., the opponent's reaction: "OMG he's playing the g-d*&% London system-- i should have taken a bye."
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #10 - 07/30/09 at 12:11:56
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Papageno wrote on 07/30/09 at 10:20:16:
Then 5...Bg4 6. Ngf3 Qb6 7. Qb3 e6 looks like a natural development of the game to me. Note, that with 5... Bf5 instead Black has the extra opportunity to play 7... c4. After 5...Bg4, this seems not too useful a plan to me..

In fact people do play ...c4 and then put the bishop on g4. There is some analysis of this in the May update.

After 7...c4 8.Qc2 e6 it's transposed to the game Karlik-Vass which continues 9.b3 Bf5 10.Qc1. However, White has been slightly move-ordered here, because Eric's recommended improvement on this game was to play b3 one move earlier.

My idea of playing 7.dxc5 (and thus gambitting the b pawn) is to take advantage of the fact that the bishop on g4 doesn't cover b1, and so allows a rook to go there. I haven't analysed it very much, but Fritz seems to like it, and it's certainly not an easy equalizer for Black.
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #9 - 07/30/09 at 10:20:16
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For me, the interesting part of a chess game starts when both players are out of book and have to start calculating for themselves. In these London systems, White might be on autopilot for 6 or 9 moves; black has some more choices to make but also develops easily. - Of course White hardly gains an advantage but the game starts around move 9 without much theory to learn. In some Sicilians you have to make sure you memorized 15-20 move correctly with many sidelines etc.

Back to the original question of 5...Bg4: Yes, this might be an (easy) equalizer. But one can say the same about 5... Bf5 which would be my choice. I think in some lines the bishop is more useful at f5 eyeing f5-b1.

Then 5...Bg4 6. Ngf3 Qb6 7. Qb3 e6 looks like a natural development of the game to me. Note, that with 5... Bf5 instead Black has the extra opportunity to play 7... c4. After 5...Bg4, this seems not too useful a plan to me.

Anyway there is still enough play in the position for both sides.
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #8 - 07/30/09 at 07:59:29
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Antillian wrote on 07/29/09 at 16:15:19:
Are you related to Gambit?


No, i'm related to interesting chess. Why should i spend my spare time to look hours and hours at this boring stuff?
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #7 - 07/29/09 at 16:15:19
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BlunderKing wrote on 07/28/09 at 22:50:50:
No, those players didn't play the London "system" as their normal opening repertoire. But I know enough players playing this boring stuff every time. The upcoming pos are so boring, they must really hate chess. Many of them want a quick draw. They never ever will get one from me. They have to be "punished" for forcing me to look at this anti-chess.


Are you related to Gambit?
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #6 - 07/28/09 at 22:50:50
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tafl wrote on 07/28/09 at 10:04:50:
Does this include all of Marshall, Lasker, Spielmann, Alekhine, Rubinstein, Capablanca, Nimzowich, Keres, Bronstein, Larsen, Spassky, Gligoric, Smyslov, Miles, Hodgson, Gelfand, Kamsky, Karpov and Kasparov or just some of them?

Admittedly they are a bunch of boring players but I think many of them might be prepared to play you for a 100 moves - if necessary.


No, those players didn't play the London "system" as their normal opening repertoire. But I know enough players playing this boring stuff every time. The upcoming pos are so boring, they must really hate chess. Many of them want a quick draw. They never ever will get one from me. They have to be "punished" for forcing me to look at this anti-chess.
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #5 - 07/28/09 at 10:04:50
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Quote:
I believe London players hate chess. I love to smash them.


Does this include all of Marshall, Lasker, Spielmann, Alekhine, Rubinstein, Capablanca, Nimzowich, Keres, Bronstein, Larsen, Spassky, Gligoric, Smyslov, Miles, Hodgson, Gelfand, Kamsky, Karpov and Kasparov or just some of them?

Admittedly they are a bunch of boring players but I think many of them might be prepared to play you for a 100 moves - if necessary.
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #4 - 07/27/09 at 20:48:14
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BlunderKing wrote on 07/25/09 at 13:54:38:
Learn a real opening. I believe London players hate chess. I love to smash them. And they never get a draw before move 100. What a boring nonsense. You ask for an opening advantage with london system?
Good joke.


I don't think we can generalize that way.
Maybe an awful lof of players below a certain level play various Queen's Pawn openings because they don't study theory (and chess).
But there are also those who could play more normal openings, yet they choose systems. For example, I play systems (Colle, Torre) only against one move order--1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6. (Black has just closed his c8B.) Otherwise, I include an early c4 and choose more powerful setups.
And there must be GMs thinking similarly.
  
as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: London System Question
Reply #3 - 07/25/09 at 21:27:40
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Anonymous3 wrote on 07/24/09 at 19:56:13:
1 d4 d5 2 Bf4 Nf6 3 e3 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Nd2 now 5...Bg4 seems to me to be a very easy equalizer for Black.

"Win With the London System's" main recommendation is 6 Qb1!? leading to an advantage for White but I think 6 Qb1!? will only give White equality at best.

"Win With the London System" also mentions 6 Ngf3 but I think that allows Black to equalize easily with 6...Qb6.

6 Qb3 Qd7 seems to me to be an improvement to the position with the Bishop on f5 because the Bishop of g4 is very annoying and it prevents White from retreating the Queen to d1.

Any suggestions for White here would be greatly appreciated.


7.dxc5 is interesting here. I think Black has to play 7...Qxb2 (if 7...Qxc5, 8.Qb3 looks good for White) and now, for example:

8.Rb1 Qxc3 9.Rxb7 Qxc5 10.Be2 Ne4 11.Nb3 Qc3+ 12.Kf1 Rd8 13.Rc7 Rc8 14.Be5
  
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MNb
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Re: London System Question
Reply #2 - 07/25/09 at 15:02:12
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It is possible to play interesting games with the London. I have done it myself as White. In fact it is quite nice to play 2.Bf4 or 3.Bf4, to see the dislike on your opponent's face and see him thinking "what a bore" and then create complications at an early stage. On my level most opponents are not capable of changing their mindset that quickly.
That having said 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 c5 is a serious problem. I am convinced that 4.c3 leads to nothing. For one thing Black can play ...cxd4 when 5.cxd4 is a Slav Exchange (sorry Markovich and S_F, but I think that more boring than the Petrov). At the other hand 5.exd4 may lead to a not so special line of the Caro-Kann: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 not 4.c4. Of course Black also has this option after 4...Nc6 5.Nd2.
More interesting might be to play an early Nc3, but I am not sure if it is sound.
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #1 - 07/25/09 at 13:54:38
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Learn a real opening. I believe London players hate chess. I love to smash them. And they never get a draw before move 100. What a boring bullshit. You ask for an opening advantage with london system?
Good joke.
  
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London System Question
07/24/09 at 19:56:13
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1 d4 d5 2 Bf4 Nf6 3 e3 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Nd2 now 5...Bg4 seems to me to be a very easy equalizer for Black.

"Win With the London System's" main recommendation is 6 Qb1!? leading to an advantage for White but I think 6 Qb1!? will only give White equality at best.

"Win With the London System" also mentions 6 Ngf3 but I think that allows Black to equalize easily with 6...Qb6.

6 Qb3 Qd7 seems to me to be an improvement to the position with the Bishop on f5 because the Bishop of g4 is very annoying and it prevents White from retreating the Queen to d1.

Any suggestions for White here would be greatly appreciated.
  
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