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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Transporter Sicilian!? (Read 16892 times)
MemoryMaster
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #27 - 12/14/09 at 00:42:24
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No, you are right and I get what you mean. In practical chess there is certainly no ultimate truth. 

Tal and Lasker could perhaps be considered provocative players while Capablanca and Fischer were the opposite.

However, the fact remains that in the long run if you keep on making suboptimal/bad moves you will lose for sure. That is what I meant about chess being about making good moves. Its like poker, there is no point in bluffing all the time.
  
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MNb
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #26 - 12/14/09 at 00:23:39
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Not exactly. Chess is about winning. Eg Lasker sometimes played a second best move if he thought it provided more winning chances and the objectively best move didn't imbalance the position enough.
2...h6 might very well fall in Lasker's category.
  

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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #25 - 12/13/09 at 14:35:29
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PatzerNoster wrote on 11/27/09 at 10:38:16:
TN wrote on 11/26/09 at 11:39:35:


I admit my evaluation of 2...h6 as +/- was a bit optimistic, though: += is a more accurate assessment.



I think that is the whole point of 2. ... h6: 
if black plays accurately he will be only slightly worse. And I think there are several variations where white can get a clear +=, although against some opponents the psychological effect of a move as 2. ... h6 could outweigh the objective disadvantage.
For example I consider it possible to outplay a weaker opponent in the positions arising; there will also be no theory he can resort to, it's just playing chess.


I hear what you are saying and perhaps it may be a good idea short time controls but in the end chess is about making good moves, isnt it?
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #24 - 11/27/09 at 10:38:16
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TN wrote on 11/26/09 at 11:39:35:


I admit my evaluation of 2...h6 as +/- was a bit optimistic, though: += is a more accurate assessment.



I think that is the whole point of 2. ... h6: 
if black plays accurately he will be only slightly worse. And I think there are several variations where white can get a clear +=, although against some opponents the psychological effect of a move as 2. ... h6 could outweigh the objective disadvantage.
For example I consider it possible to outplay a weaker opponent in the positions arising; there will also be no theory he can resort to, it's just playing chess.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #23 - 11/27/09 at 08:13:43
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TN wrote on 11/26/09 at 11:39:35:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 11/26/09 at 10:00:47:

Perhaps you should read my article first, [...]

Point taken. [...]

And I should have better read this thread before my article went online or before I posted the above. My ChessCafe article said: "5…Nf6 transposes to a little-played, but interesting system" instead of mentioning its official name "Transporter Sicilian". My apologies to T. J. and the Swedish chess community.
  
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TN
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #22 - 11/26/09 at 11:39:35
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 11/26/09 at 10:00:47:


@TN
Perhaps you should read my article first, before you criticize. On 7.Nc3 my continuation is 7...Be6!.



Point taken. I read your article, and I underestimated 7...Be6 in answer to 7.Nc3 - I still think White can improve with 8.Bb5 Nc6 9.Qa4 when I feel he is slightly better, but I agree with you that 7.Bc4 is more precise than 7.Nc3. 

I see no reason to disagree with your analysis of 7.Bc4, which indicates that White should keep a slight advantage due to Black's king being in the centre. I admit my evaluation of 2...h6 as +/- was a bit optimistic, though: += is a more accurate assessment.

For those who haven't found the article, the link is http://www.chesscafe.com/kaissiber/kaissiber.htm.
  

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Stefan Buecker
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #21 - 11/26/09 at 10:00:47
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MNb wrote on 11/26/09 at 02:44:52:
I quite like 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6 3.Nc3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bc4 e5 7.Nde2. One idea is to play Be3, Qd2, f3, g4 and Ng3. Then the kingside does not look that safe for His Black Majesty. White seems to have an improved version of the Byrne Attack vs the Najdorf: 5...a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nb3.

Your general idea seems sound. I don't know much about the Najdorf, but after 7...Be7 how would you continue? On 8 Be3, Black has Ng4, and 8 f3 allows 8...Qb6!? 9.Qd3 0-0, Black is willing to take on b2 or play something like Na6-c5. Or 8 Qd3 Nc6 9 f3 Nb4 10 Qd1 Be6, since you don't control d5.  

Instead of 7.Nde2, hoping for later recovery of the piece via g3, isn't Nf5 stronger, fighting for the square d5? Which transposes, of course, to the earlier remark in this thread by PatzerNoster: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 h6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5 Nc3 e5 6 Nf5(!) d6, and now 7 Bc4 transposes to your own line, if you replace 7 Nde2 by 7 Nf5. This is certainly a good line for White. In my article I was focused on 3.c3, which for a long time I used to see as the refutation.

There is an interesting alternative: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6 3.Nc3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bc4 a6! (instead of 6...e5). Then on 7 f3 Black can play 7...Qc7 which wins a tempo on the Bc4 (an advantage of postponing Nc6), followed by e6. Best may be 7 Be3, when Black has a choice:
(a) 7...e5
(a1) 8 Nde2 Ng4, an improved version of "a", transposes to your line. 
(a2) 8 Nf5 g6 9 Ng3 Be6 += is playable for Black (than 6...e5 7 Nf5), because Ng3 is less useful than a Ne3. 
(b) 7...Ng4 8 Qf3!? Ne5 9 Qe2 Nxc4 10 Qxc4 e6 11 0-0 b5 12 Qb3 Nd7 unclear. (c) 7...Qc7 8 Bb3 e6 with interesting play.

@TN
Perhaps you should read my article first, before you criticize. On 7.Nc3 my continuation is 7...Be6!.

Regarding Papageno's opinion:
Quote:
In addition, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6 3.Nc3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6. Be3 a6 7. f3 e5 8. Nb3 Be6 9. Qd2 Nbd7 10. 0-0-0 b5 11. g4 is a Najdorf line, where the inclusion of g2-g4 and h7-h6 tends to favor White. (Among others, this is what Jesus de la Villa explains in his repertoire book "Dismantling the Sicilian".) – And 7. Bc4! looks like a much improved Sozin-Fischer to me...
Thus, in my opinion, Stefan Buecker is unfairly criticizing Pachman's recommendation of 3. Nc3.
In this respect I certainly don't agree with Jesus de la Villa. - 7. Bc4! may be playable, but in Sozin-Fischer Black typically plays an early Nc6. There are other lines which are closer to the actual position; the option Qc7 (attacking the bishop) and/or b5 followed by Bb7 lead to interesting positions with balanced chances. The "pointless" move h6 isn't necessarily the point. The key may as well be postponing Nb8-c6, which adds new ideas to Black's arsenal.
  
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Papageno
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #20 - 11/26/09 at 08:35:27
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I agree with MNb on the open sicilian. 

In addition, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6 3.Nc3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6. Be3 a6 7. f3 e5 8. Nb3 Be6 9. Qd2 Nbd7 10. 0-0-0 b5 11. g4 is a Najdorf line, where the inclusion of g2-g4 and h7-h6 tends to favor White. (Among others, this is what Jesus de la Villa explains in his repertoire book "Dismantling the Sicilian".) – And 7. Bc4! looks like a much improved Sozin-Fischer to me...

Thus, in my opinion, Stefan Buecker is unfairly criticizing Pachman's recommendation of 3. Nc3.
  
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TN
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #19 - 11/26/09 at 05:31:05
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PatzerNoster wrote on 11/25/09 at 14:33:44:


He advocates transposing to an Alapin variation after 3.c3 Nf6!? which should give black a playable game.


I highly doubt it; 4.e5 Nd5 5.d4 cd4 6.cd4 is much better for White - it's a main-line Alapin Sicilian with a full extra tempo for White. In fact, ...h6 could even be a harmful move if Black plays a ...d6/...e6 setup as White can then set up the Bc2/Qd3 battery at a later stage to good effect, and 6...d6 7.Nc3 Nc3 8.bc3 de5 9.Ne5 is dubious at best for Black. 7.Bc4 Nb6 8.Bb3 may be even better.
  

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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #18 - 11/26/09 at 02:44:52
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I quite like 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6 3.Nc3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bc4 e5 7.Nde2. One idea is to play Be3, Qd2, f3, g4 and Ng3. Then the kingside does not look that safe for His Black Majesty. White seems to have an improved version of the Byrne Attack vs the Najdorf: 5...a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nb3.
  

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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #17 - 11/25/09 at 15:09:50
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In the article in NIC Yearbook 18 (1990) I wrote: "The simplest continuation, perhaps, is 6 Nf5! d6 7 Ne3 Be6 8 Ned5, with a slight advantage for White." This line (or 7 Bc4) is certainly playable, though in my opinion 3 c3 is the harder test.
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #16 - 11/25/09 at 14:33:44
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Did anybody notice Stefan Bücker's new article on Chesscafe on 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6?!

He advocates transposing to an Alapin variation after 3.c3 Nf6!? which should give black a playable game.

By the way, what does black do after 3.d4 cd4: 4.Nd4: Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Nf5  ?
This looks like a good move for white!
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #15 - 10/31/09 at 14:40:08
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Compared to the Sveshnikov Black hasn´t wasted any time here since there is no attacked knight on c6. In fact it is White who is a tempo down because it´s Black to move. Also the pawn on h6 does make some sense after the typical Be7-g5.

Blacks position looks fine to me and I doubt this is best play for White.

But I agree with you that 2...h6?! is dubious. My preference would be 3.c3 instead of 3.d4.
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #14 - 10/31/09 at 12:43:14
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Fllg wrote on 10/30/09 at 16:06:20:
Ender wrote on 10/30/09 at 11:56:31:

Improved?
7.Nd5 is just better for white.


I´m not willing to defend 2...h6 but why is 7.Nd5 just better for White? 7...Nxd5 8.exd5 a6 looks acceptable for Black.



h6 is just waste of time. white gonna play Na3 and c4 at some point with better position. Since h6 is playe, every time You want play f5 as black, g6 would be weak. That's why h6 is total crap.
  

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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #13 - 10/30/09 at 16:06:20
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Ender wrote on 10/30/09 at 11:56:31:

Improved?
7.Nd5 is just better for white.


I´m not willing to defend 2...h6 but why is 7.Nd5 just better for White? 7...Nxd5 8.exd5 a6 looks acceptable for Black.
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #12 - 10/30/09 at 11:56:31
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Fllg wrote on 07/31/09 at 15:58:26:
Thinking about an early ...h6 in the Sicilian I remember an article recommending 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6!? with the idea 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5! 6.Ndb5 d6 with some sort of improved Sveshnikov since Bg5 isn´t possible. Otherwise an early ...g5 may be on the cards.


Improved?
7.Nd5 is just better for white.
  

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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #11 - 10/30/09 at 06:59:25
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Hey, it's probably better to go for stuff that you actually see in main lines at a later stage. For instance 5...Qc7, (or your ...Bd7). These moves are forever cropping up everywhere, so it wouldn't be such an awful our-of-book idea to play it immediately. However except the Keres Attack and some weird Dragondorfs I can't for the life of me think up any line where Black would play ...h6. Besides what's the intention after a reply 6. Bc4?

That said, it's impossible in this pragmatic day and age to condemn any line to the Recycle Bin. Will observe later developments.
  

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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #10 - 08/01/09 at 15:41:59
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TN's line (a) reminds me of an Informant novelty from about 20 years ago, involving Black playing ...h6 with the idea of ...g5 in the Classical Scheveningen (but without having castled kingside of course).  I suppose it compared unfavorably to e.g. the Browne System.  I'm not sure why line (c) would be good for White though, with the Bishop occupying e3 (which the knight might want) and perhaps ...h6 preventing White from answering ...g6 with Nh6 in some lines.
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #9 - 08/01/09 at 11:52:17
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I'm not sure I trust this for Black after 6.Be3, for example:

a) 6...e6 7.Be2 a6/0-0 8.0-0 followed by f4 and Qe1, when it is far from clear what Black has gained from playing ...h6, which is probably more harmful than useful because it weakens Black's kingside. 

b) 6...a6 is somewhat more logical since if White plays as in the English Attack with 7.f3, then 7...e5 8.Nb3 Be6 is playable for Black. However, after 7.Bc4 e6 8.Bb3, White can count on a slight edge since f4-f5 is going to hurt in the future due to the weakening of the g6-square and the loss of a tempo in a sharp position.

c) 6...e5 (probably the best attempt to justify 5...h6, but unfortunately it has a flaw as well) 7.Bb5! and now both 7...Bd7 8.Bd7 Qd7 9.Nf5 and 7...Nbd7 8.Nf5 are favourable for White, who activates his knight and disrupts Black's coordination. 

Unfortunately, I can't get this 5...h6 variation to work. I recommend 5...Bd7 instead if you want a non-theoretical but flexible way to play the Sicilian.
  

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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #8 - 08/01/09 at 07:17:50
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Indeed. Even the Morra may be okay here.  Wink

Honestly I consider an early ...h6 as a concession in most openings. Myself I wouldn´t play this way in a tournament game even if there is no direct refutation. That´s prejudice from my side but I have grown up with "rules" like fast development, King safety an so on.

Regarding the subject of this thread 6.Bc4 with a quick f4-f5 (in case Black plays e6) looks quite logical to me highlighting the "weakness" Black has created on g6.

  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #7 - 07/31/09 at 19:40:14
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Fllg wrote on 07/31/09 at 15:58:26:
Thinking about an early ...h6 in the Sicilian I remember an article recommending 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6!? with the idea 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5! 6.Ndb5 d6 with some sort of improved Sveshnikov since Bg5 isn´t possible. Otherwise an early ...g5 may be on the cards.

Somehow in my brain the article is linked with Stefan Bücker and New in Chess, but I´m not sure. Perhaps he can clearify this himself.


Yes,I noticed some games with 2...h6 too, but since 2...a6 3.c3 is supposedly good for white, then 2...h6 would probably encourage all Anti-Sicilians...
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #6 - 07/31/09 at 15:58:26
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Thinking about an early ...h6 in the Sicilian I remember an article recommending 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6!? with the idea 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5! 6.Ndb5 d6 with some sort of improved Sveshnikov since Bg5 isn´t possible. Otherwise an early ...g5 may be on the cards.

Somehow in my brain the article is linked with Stefan Bücker and New in Chess, but I´m not sure. Perhaps he can clearify this himself.
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #5 - 07/31/09 at 13:08:27
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OK, I think I've seen that one actually! So, Transporter fans and sicilianites could start their game with hoarsely whispering "One condition, I play my Sicilian" Cheesy

@Fllg
Ooops, I noticed Kasperek-Pokojowczyk, but there black was probably wishing he'd played ...h6 instead of presumably wasting a tempo with a7-a6-a5 Smiley

Strange that h6 could be confused with a6 more than once, I wonder how that would occur since there are two scoresheets so wouldn't those putting it in the database react over h6 and check the other copy - or did both players write h6 by mistake?  Undecided
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #4 - 07/31/09 at 12:50:46
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TalJechin wrote on 07/31/09 at 12:45:44:
Bibs wrote on 07/31/09 at 12:35:05:
Why Transporter? Jason Statham a fan?


Well, at first I though ]d6,e7,f7,g7,h6 looked like a boat and since I was on a ferry... but then I realised that both the ferry and 5...h6 is all about transport, so why not? Smiley


Is that the long ferry journey I heard about up there where everyone gets completely smashed? 
Anyhow, here's Statham:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbh3CDBNIQA
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #3 - 07/31/09 at 12:49:37
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TalJechin wrote on 07/31/09 at 12:28:01:
To my surprise it has actually already been tried by a handful quite strong players.


I am sure some of these games were entered wrongly into the database actually starting as a Najdorf with 5... a6. Look e.g. at the game Mohr-Timoscenko, Yerevan Ol. 1996 and here especially at white´s 23rd move.  Wink In fact there are several misleading mistakes of this kind in Megabase.
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #2 - 07/31/09 at 12:45:44
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Bibs wrote on 07/31/09 at 12:35:05:
Why Transporter? Jason Statham a fan?


Well, at first I though d6,e7,f7,g7,h6 looked like a boat and since I was on a ferry... but then I realised that both the ferry and 5...h6 is all about transport, so why not? Smiley
  
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Re: The Transporter Sicilian!?
Reply #1 - 07/31/09 at 12:35:05
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Why Transporter? Jason Statham a fan?
  
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The Transporter Sicilian!?
07/31/09 at 12:28:01
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On the ferry over to Helsingör recently, I was thinking about the Dragadorf, when another similar idea appeared to me.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 h6!?

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About a decade ago I looked at something I called "the Anteater Sicilian" at the time (5...Nbd7) on my site. But iirc, white could keep an edge with 6.Bg5 - which would be one of the pros of the Dragadorf, as against 5...g6 6.Bg5 is nothing special.

Still, white's Qd2+Bh6 and/or ...b5 a4! resources made me wonder if there was something else with a similar idea. Thus 5...h6 eliminating Bg5 while black keeps it open what kind of d6-Sicilian he's intending to play.

Depending on white's 6th, black can go for 6...a6, 6...e5, 6...Nc6, 6...e6, 6...g6 and perhaps also 6...Nbd7.

I guess the choice depends on which mainline systems black knows best.

And since Bg5 is the mainline in several of those, I guess 5...h6 may not be completely useless to get white out of book in a delayed Classical, Najdorf, Scheveningen, Dragadorf etc

I've added a pgn-file with some games I found with the diagram position. To my surprise it has actually already been tried by a handful quite strong players.
  

TheTransporterSI.pgn ( 17 KB | Downloads )
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