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Normal Topic my setups against anti-Nimzo lines (for Black) (Read 5268 times)
HoemberChess
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Re: my setups against anti-Nimzo lines (for Black)
Reply #4 - 08/07/09 at 16:32:19
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I meant Bb4+. (I wish I could correct that.)

Have I considered the Kasparov Gambit? (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
No, since following the variations above, there is a position that can be reached via different move orders.  (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.a3? c5 4.Nf3 cxd4 5.Nxd4) That's why I think it is more economical to play 4..e6 in that position. (For the time being...)


Markovich wrote on 08/07/09 at 16:14:25:
HoemberChess wrote on 08/02/09 at 09:27:14:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 5.g3 Qb4+


Did you mean 5...Qa5+?  The position after 5.g3 more typically arises via 2.c4 e6 3.g3 c5 4.Nf3 cxd4 5.Nxd4.  If I recall correctly, normal moves are 5...d5, 5...Qc7, 5...Qb6, 5...Bc5 and 5...Bb4+. 

Also, have you considered the so-called Kasparov Gambit with 4...e5?

  

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*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Markovich
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Re: my setups against anti-Nimzo lines (for Black)
Reply #3 - 08/07/09 at 16:14:25
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HoemberChess wrote on 08/02/09 at 09:27:14:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 5.g3 Qb4+


Did you mean 5...Qa5+?  The position after 5.g3 more typically arises via 2.c4 e6 3.g3 c5 4.Nf3 cxd4 5.Nxd4.  If I recall correctly, normal moves are 5...d5, 5...Qc7, 5...Qb6, 5...Bc5 and 5...Bb4+. 

Also, have you considered the so-called Kasparov Gambit with 4...e5?
  

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Re: my setups against anti-Nimzo lines (for Black)
Reply #2 - 08/07/09 at 15:41:25
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HoemberChess wrote on 08/02/09 at 09:27:14:
I didn't like the--seeming, at least--passivity of the Black setups after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4/Bg5/e3, therefore I was going to complement the NID with the QGD-Tartakower (vs. 2/3.Nf3) but, in the meantime I realized that would be too much work, indeed. (At least, for the time being.)
So, I "created" something around an early ..c5.
---
How do you like these variations? (Obviously, I didn't invent any wheel by this.  Smiley)


I, for one, would like to give you a pat on the back. This looks well thought out and invites one to have a look at the variations. The 2. Nf3 complex is annoying, and it's nice to have a blueprint on how to turn the tables and take the initiative in selecting the opening. Good work.
  
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Re: my setups against anti-Nimzo lines (for Black)
Reply #1 - 08/02/09 at 21:44:02
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I was the one that recommended 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 c5 3. c3 Qa5, because I don't think black should be allowing Reversed Slavs where white gets to play dxc5, and make black regain the pawn. 

I still stand by it. It makes for a possible chance to obtain a central majority, or black can play d5/Nf6/g6/Bg7 etc. without worrying about having to regain the c-pawn after dxc5 at some point. In my opinion he gets easy equality, and an imbalanced position. Yes, the Q move looks artificial, but white, by playing c3, impedes his own development anyway, which is artificial in its own way. Even if white suddenly prefers 4. d5 (to prevent black's d5) the Q is useful in aiding a ...b5 advance. At that point I find the Q move more useful than white's c3 (in comparison to the analagous 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 c5 3. d5 b5 4. Bg5)

I'm still unsure of playing 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 c5 3. d5 b5 4. Bg5 as black. It's very unclear, and I recall some variations where black is struggling. This is the critical variation of the whole complex.

Against your 5. a3 black can likely play Qc7, or maybe d5. He should not play 5...Nc6 allowing a transposition of lines after 6. Nc3 (white's objective).

Against 3. e3 d5 4. c3 I'm wondering if black can play it as a Reversed Noteboom with 4...Qc7, even if down a tempo. As white it'd occur via 1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 c6 3. c4 e6 4. Qc2 Nf6 5. Bg5 being white's best when the board is flipped, and while with the extra tempo it is good enough for +=, maybe it is good enough for = as black.

Even if 4...d5 is best black isn't dealing with the b3 Colles, and in the main-line his chances aren't too bad at any rate.

Okay, all this aside - these lines are guaranteed to offer better practical chances in tournament play, undoubtedly. Most players with white intent on playing a Colle aren't going to opt for the critical 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 c5 3. d5 b5 4. Bg5. Those that stubbornly insist on the Colle are going to be confronted with a rough time when black gets very ambitious set-ups that would be += if the board is flipped.
  

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HoemberChess
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my setups against anti-Nimzo lines (for Black)
08/02/09 at 09:27:14
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I didn't like the--seeming, at least--passivity of the Black setups after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4/Bg5/e3, therefore I was going to complement the NID with the QGD-Tartakower (vs. 2/3.Nf3) but, in the meantime I realized that would be too much work, indeed. (At least, for the time being.)
So, I "created" something around an early ..c5.
Here they are:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5
  • 3.d5 b5 
               4.Bg5 Qb6 //they say this is satisfactory for Black
               4.c4 //basic position of the Benko Gambit Declined (w/ 4.Nf3)
                           4..Bb7 //not the usual Benko-like treatment (w/ ..g6)
  • 3.c4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 
                           5.Nc3 Bb4
                           5.g3 Qb4+ //someone recommended 5..Qc7 here
                           5.a3? (*) //and now? What's Black' best move?; 102 games in my MegaBase                        
  • 3.c3 d5 //s/o recommended 3..Qa5 in another thread
               4.Bf4 Qb6 //London System (when Black's c8B is not closed)
                 //the same as 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4 c5 4.c3 Qb6 (Cox's book "Dealing w/ d4 deviations")
               4.Bg5 Ne4 //Torre Attack (when the black c8B is still free)
                     5.Bh4 cxd4 //the same as 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bg5 Ne4 4.Bh4 c5 5.c3 cxd4 in that book
                     5.Bf4 cxd4 //the same as 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bg5 Ne4 4.Bf4 c5 5.c3 cxd4 in that book
               4.e3 e6 //a normal Colle. Is there something better than 4..e6? If so, tell me pls.
  • 3.e3 d5 4.c4 cxd4 //I play the C-K vs. 1.e4--no problem


1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.a3? c5
  • 4.e3 cxd4 5.exd4 d5 //I play the C-K vs 1.e4--no problem
  • 4.d5 b5 //Black seems to be O.K. already            
  • 4.Nf3 cxd4 5.Nxd4 //and now what? (the same as (*) above)

How do you like these variations? (Obviously, I didn't invent any wheel by this.  Smiley)
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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