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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Modern Benoni Repertoire (Read 39182 times)
Markovich
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #57 - 12/26/10 at 17:28:47
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Good idea.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #56 - 12/26/10 at 09:00:54
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Thank you for your comments and suggestions. I think for now I will play the main line head on with the 9..b5 variation. Learning to play new openings I think it is best to start with the main lines, then when I get some more experience I can experiment with the side lines.

  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #55 - 12/25/10 at 17:32:23
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LeeRoth wrote on 12/13/10 at 05:15:27:
@Rimfaxe -- If you play the Benoni from the 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nc3 g6 move order, then you can avoid the Modern Main Line, after either 7.e4 or 7.h3, by playing 7..a6!



what after 7. h3 a6 8. a4? 8. ... Qe7 looks a bit dodgy...
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #54 - 12/13/10 at 05:15:27
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@Rimfaxe -- If you play the Benoni from the 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nc3 g6 move order, then you can avoid the Modern Main Line, after either 7.e4 or 7.h3, by playing 7..a6!

  
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Markovich
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #53 - 12/11/10 at 02:48:53
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Rimfaxe wrote on 12/10/10 at 21:18:12:
I have decided to start to play the Modern Benoni, specially against 1.d4 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3.Nf3, where I used to play the QI.

I am trying to change my opening repertoire to get more active positions, but I have had a lot of problems finding something active against d4 that fits my playing style. But I think the modern Benoni can be the way to go for me. My rating is about 1900, and most of my opponents do not know much theory, so I do not need to be sharp on all details, just to get the ideas so I can get a good active position with the Black pieces.

I just bought the Watson book and the Vegh book.

I wonder what do you think about the Watson recommandation 9...Nh5 in the modern main line?

The normal move is 9...b5 is recommended by Vegh.

It is 6 years ago Watson wrote his book, so is 9...Nh5 still playable? Or should I go for 9..b5?



Personally I would embrace 9...b5.  I've played some CC games and been reasonably satisfied with my play.  Some lines are not so easy to win, but they don't seem difficult to draw.   You're Black, though, you know?

My main problem with the MB is what to do after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4.  Obviously there is no MB now without White's cooperation, but how to play when he doesn't cooperate?

I guess the answer to winning with Black is, change your name to Bogoljubov.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #52 - 12/11/10 at 01:39:21
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TN wrote on 12/11/10 at 00:24:57:
If you want to play ...Nh5, then why castle? 7.h3 Bg7 8.e4 a6 9.a4 Nbd7!? 10.Bd3 Nh5! is still going strong for Black.


Isn't that under dispute?  http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1277923036

I for one think Black is probably OK but after I managed to delete my (rybka's/firebird's) analysis on this I never got back to it.
  
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TN
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #51 - 12/11/10 at 00:24:57
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If you want to play ...Nh5, then why castle? 7.h3 Bg7 8.e4 a6 9.a4 Nbd7!? 10.Bd3 Nh5! is still going strong for Black.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #50 - 12/10/10 at 21:18:12
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I have decided to start to play the Modern Benoni, specially against 1.d4 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3.Nf3, where I used to play the QI.

I am trying to change my opening repertoire to get more active positions, but I have had a lot of problems finding something active against d4 that fits my playing style. But I think the modern Benoni can be the way to go for me. My rating is about 1900, and most of my opponents do not know much theory, so I do not need to be sharp on all details, just to get the ideas so I can get a good active position with the Black pieces.

I just bought the Watson book and the Vegh book.

I wonder what do you think about the Watson recommandation 9...Nh5 in the modern main line?

The normal move is 9...b5 is recommended by Vegh.

It is 6 years ago Watson wrote his book, so is 9...Nh5 still playable? Or should I go for 9..b5?

  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #49 - 12/10/10 at 20:43:42
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No more Botvinnik Systems for White either, so that was no big deal for me.
My biggest problem was a kind of schizophrenia. As Black I liked something like 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 Nc7 best, which is an Accelerated Dragon with colours reversed. Somewhere there is a gambit developed by Vaganian and Kapengut. I think it's considered dubious these days, but I would not know for certain. I never got the chance to play it anyway.
The problem with this is 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 when g6 (I did not like other lines very much) allows White to play that same variation him/herself. Fortunately I never faced this problem in practice.

Another option I looked at was leaving that Queen's Knight on d7 for a while: 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nc3 g6 4.g3 Bg7 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 d6 7.d4 a6 (my own invention, unaware that Paoli already played this 35 years earlier). An opponent played 8.dxc5 and I managed to draw after an incredibly dull game. That was the end of this idea.
The problem was "solved" when I got bored from the Benkö and Benoni's in general and began to play something else.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #48 - 12/10/10 at 15:51:23
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MNb wrote on 12/09/10 at 16:14:40:
Markovich wrote on 12/09/10 at 00:44:25:
It seems to me that the Modern Benoni player does best to play the Sicilian and the Symmetrical English.  Then both 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 can be met with 1...c5.  But without the Sicilian in the repertoire, 1...c5 can't be played against 1.Nf3.

In general you're right. But it is not entirely necessary to incorporate the Sicilian When I played the Benkö I answered 1.Nf3 with Nf6 and only after 2.c4 c5.


This gives rise to a form of the Symmetrical that, in my opinion, isn't quite as nice for Black as when he plays his QN out first.  No more Botvinnik Systems, for one thing.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #47 - 12/09/10 at 16:14:40
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Markovich wrote on 12/09/10 at 00:44:25:
It seems to me that the Modern Benoni player does best to play the Sicilian and the Symmetrical English.  Then both 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 can be met with 1...c5.  But without the Sicilian in the repertoire, 1...c5 can't be played against 1.Nf3.

In general you're right. But it is not entirely necessary to incorporate the Sicilian When I played the Benkö I answered 1.Nf3 with Nf6 and only after 2.c4 c5.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #46 - 12/09/10 at 04:58:12
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Markovich wrote on 12/09/10 at 00:44:25:
So far as I know, there is no way to wangle a Modern Benoni against 1.Nf3 unless White is quite cooperative.  Thus 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 and so forth, with nary a chance of a Modern Benoni.


Palliser makes exactly this point in Beating Unusual Chess Openings when he observes that Benoni (and Benko) players are rather move-ordered by 1.Nf3.

Quote:
It seems to me that the Modern Benoni player does best to play the Sicilian and the Symmetrical English.  Then both 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 can be met with 1...c5.  But without the Sicilian in the repertoire, 1...c5 can't be played against 1.Nf3.


I suppose one could go on the assumption that someone who plays 1.Nf3 to move-order you out of your favorite defence to his preferred choice of 1.d4 is probably not really prepared for the Sicilian either but I seem to recall a story about the young Vaganian being caught in exactly this way.
« Last Edit: 12/09/10 at 13:44:41 by MarkG »  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #45 - 12/09/10 at 00:44:25
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So far as I know, there is no way to wangle a Modern Benoni against 1.Nf3 unless White is quite cooperative.  Thus 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 and so forth, with nary a chance of a Modern Benoni.

It seems to me that the Modern Benoni player does best to play the Sicilian and the Symmetrical English.  Then both 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 can be met with 1...c5.  But without the Sicilian in the repertoire, 1...c5 can't be played against 1.Nf3.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #44 - 12/07/10 at 00:26:42
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1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 - the choice for a Benoniplayer is between
a) 2.-e6 (drawback could be 3.g3 and very less action..)
b) 2.-c5 3.d5 g6 (would be preferred by me, drawback is  you have to be prepared for the Czech-Benoni but that looks quite ok when you dig down a bit)
c) 2.-g6 (drawback could be 3.c4 c5 4.Nc3)

Everything in Benoni tends to be critical, but black gets his chances - that is worth alot!

g3-system I think 9.-Re8 10.Bf4 is as critical as 10.Nd2 but not as sharp then.

Modern with Nf3, Bd3 and h3 is very boring for Black as far as I understand and made me quit playing the complex.
Disclaimer - only thru 2.-e6 3.Nf3/3.g3 as I used NI against the 3.Nc3.
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #43 - 11/17/10 at 04:55:18
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Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #42 - 11/17/10 at 04:58:14
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The last 6 Posts were moved here from Nimzo and Benonis [move by] TN.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #41 - 11/02/10 at 18:57:45
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Markovich wrote on 11/01/10 at 15:51:24:
Paul Cumbers wrote on 10/31/10 at 22:02:37:
[quote author=15392A33372E313B30580 link=1249207479/32#32 date=1288399986]
I've tried 2...c5 a few times, and 3.e3 has been the most common response. I can't say I'm happier facing the Colle than I am the Torre or London! (Out of the frying pan... Roll Eyes)

With 2...e6, there's still a chance of Benoni, viz. 3.c4 c5 4.d5 - I've had this before. It's unusual for White to play this way of course, but perhaps no less unusual than 2...c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4.


Maybe this is true at the club level, but in my data base after 2...e6, White plays 3.c4 much more than any other move, and more than 39% of the time.  Surely it's White's best move.



I agree.  In my experience, 2..e6 gives you a better chance than 2..c5 of getting a position that you want.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #40 - 11/01/10 at 17:39:36
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Well at some point you have to talk chess, and for some reason here it came down to White's avoidance attempts.  I don't agree that that's off topic, though clearly there is another thread devoted to the same line.  What is clear is that the etymology of "Habichd" and so on, and so forth, is off topic.

When you said "I mentioned earlier," I took that to mean what you said in the other thread.  But we quibble.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #39 - 11/01/10 at 16:05:22
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Markovich wrote on 11/01/10 at 15:40:10:
TalJechin wrote on 11/01/10 at 14:26:35:
and move all this "2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 without c4" stuff to it's proper thread as I mentioned earlier: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1085643061


I followed that link to a post that isn't yours, so I can't figure out what you mean.  Clearly this thread is in the right part of the forum though, eh?


I've never said it was mine. But the topic title is pretty telling wouldn't you say? i.e: "1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3"

And it's in the same section as this one, so I don't understand your other comment.

This thread is supposedly about a "Modern Benoni Repertoire" not white's attempt to avoid the Modern Benoni. Otherwise we could just as well discuss almost everything else here, Tromp, 2.c3, Catalan etc etc
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #38 - 11/01/10 at 15:51:24
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Paul Cumbers wrote on 10/31/10 at 22:02:37:
[quote author=15392A33372E313B30580 link=1249207479/32#32 date=1288399986]
I've tried 2...c5 a few times, and 3.e3 has been the most common response. I can't say I'm happier facing the Colle than I am the Torre or London! (Out of the frying pan... Roll Eyes)

With 2...e6, there's still a chance of Benoni, viz. 3.c4 c5 4.d5 - I've had this before. It's unusual for White to play this way of course, but perhaps no less unusual than 2...c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4.


Maybe this is true at the club level, but in my data base after 2...e6, White plays 3.c4 much more than any other move, and more than 39% of the time.  Surely it's White's best move.

One thing worth noting is that after 2...e6 3.g3, Black has the very interesting 3...b5!?, though 3...c5 is no doubt just as good.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #37 - 11/01/10 at 15:40:10
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TalJechin wrote on 11/01/10 at 14:26:35:
and move all this "2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 without c4" stuff to it's proper thread as I mentioned earlier: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1085643061


I followed that link to a post that isn't yours, so I can't figure out what you mean.  Clearly this thread is in the right part of the forum though, eh?
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #36 - 11/01/10 at 14:26:35
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and move all this "2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 without c4" stuff to it's proper thread as I mentioned earlier: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1085643061
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #35 - 10/30/10 at 13:00:08
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 10/30/10 at 12:03:23:
TalJechin wrote on 10/30/10 at 09:32:24:
Btw, is Bücker's 3...c4 "Der Habichd" refuted nowadays? 

Das Habichd is fine, I think, with an extra tempo, like 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4 3.c5. Regarding the version with a tempo less, hmm, give me a bit more time. I'll reply very soon when Rybka 7 is available.


Hmm, so it was "das" after all - you can't trust the wiki anymore (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habichd)



Btw, if Black is willing to consider 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 b5 - why not simply go 3...b5 ? Or is it just wimpy to put the b-pawn on b5 if it's not en prise?

Sure "the forgive and forget"-e6 4.c4 may be something to hope for, but on the other hand; a possible Benko may be better than a strange Blumenfeld.
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #34 - 10/30/10 at 12:03:23
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TalJechin wrote on 10/30/10 at 09:32:24:
Btw, is Bücker's 3...c4 "Der Habichd" refuted nowadays? 

Das Habichd is fine, I think, with an extra tempo, like 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4 3.c5. Regarding the version with a tempo less, hmm, give me a bit more time. I'll reply very soon when Rybka 7 is available.
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #33 - 10/30/10 at 09:32:24
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Markovich wrote on 10/30/10 at 00:53:06:
Blast!  What I meant was 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 b5 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.Nxb5 d5 7.Nc3! Be7 8.e4 (8.e3!? +=) d4 9.e5 dxc3 10.Qxd8+ Bxd8 11.exf6 Bxf6 12.Rb1! Bb7 13.bxc3 Bxf3 14.gxf3 Bxc3+ 15.Ke2! += and so forth.  Terribly sorry about that.

6...Nc6 is interesting but I can't understand your analysis after that, which doesn't comport with the preceding moves.

8...O-O is possible, but I think it's one more case of the gambiteer having about half a pawn's worth of comp for his pawn.

At the end of the day, I think that the Benoni player's best move is 2...e6.


Aha, I just assumed you'd pasted the line from CB, otherwise I might have picked up on the sloppy move order.

Btw, is Bücker's 3...c4 "Der Habichd" refuted nowadays?
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #32 - 10/30/10 at 00:53:06
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Blast!  What I meant was 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 b5 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.Nxb5 d5 7.Nc3! Be7 8.e4 (8.e3!? +=) d4 9.e5 dxc3 10.Qxd8+ Bxd8 11.exf6 Bxf6 12.Rb1! Bb7 13.bxc3 Bxf3 14.gxf3 Bxc3+ 15.Ke2! += and so forth.  Terribly sorry about that.

6...Nc6 is interesting but I can't understand your analysis after that, which doesn't comport with the preceding moves.

8...O-O is possible, but I think it's one more case of the gambiteer having about half a pawn's worth of comp for his pawn.

At the end of the day, I think that the Benoni player's best move is 2...e6.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #31 - 10/29/10 at 19:04:15
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Markovich wrote on 10/29/10 at 18:18:56:
Markovich wrote on 03/25/10 at 13:13:54:
Markovich wrote on 08/17/09 at 12:45:23:
Returning to the original topic, I think that Palliser's Modern Benoni Revealed is an outstanding book.  I have some issues with mode of organization of the "Revealed" series, but notwithstanding that, Palliser's book is quite readable and jammed with useful information.  Also Palliser is an avid practitioner of the Modern Benoni and as such, dishes out a lot of useful practical advice.

Having said that, I would like to call attention to a small error in this book.  Against 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3, Palliser advocates 2...c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.Nxd5 Nxd5 6.Qxd5 d6 "!" and remarks that after 7.Ng5 (7.e4 is more usual) 7...Qf6 Black is good in the complications that follow.  But Black is by no means good after 8.Nxh7!, which just wins a pawn.  There is a GM game from the 90s (sorry, I forget who the players were) that continued 8...Qf5 9.Qxf5 Bxf5 10.Nxf8 and now with 10...Nc6?! Black pretended that he had comp.  White allowed himself to be bluffed and played 10.c3.  But 10.Bf4! would have left Black even worse off than if he'd played 10...Kxf8.  So much for 7...Qf6!  

If Black's previous play can be justified, it must be by means of 7...Qe7.  However this doesn't look too terribly bad for Black, So I think that 3...e6 may hold up.  Black also has 3...b5!?, of course, but I would think that a Modern Benoni player might prefer 3...e6 with its invitation to "forgive and forget" after 4.c4.

Last of all, as pointed out by Palliser, Black can fall back on 2...e6.  This is unobjectionable, but it does require him to prepare for the Torre and the London.


More on this subject.  I've looked some more at 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.Nxd5 Nxd5 6.Qxd5 d6 7.Ng5 Qe7, and I really don't like Black's game after 8.Bf4 Be6 9.Nxe6 fxe6 10.Qh5+.  E.g. 10...g6 11.Qg4 appears to be "w" in my parlance (http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1266527927) . So my provisional conclusion is that 4...exd5 is no good.

However 4...b5 looks quite interesting.  We discussed this briefly before, though I have been unable to locate the thread.  I recall saying that 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.Nxb5 d5 7.Nc3 looked strong to me, intending soon e2-e4.  But more recently I noticed 7...Be7 8.e4 d4! 9.e5 dxc3 10.exf3 Qxd1+ 11.Kxd1 Bxf6 and Black seems to be O.K.  To take advantage of 7...Be7 it would seem that White has to refrain from 8.e4. 


I've looked further at this, and I've concluded that after 11...Bxf6, Black confronts a dreary endgame after 12.Rb1! (as opposed to 12.b3= as mentioned in the DW book, which I have since purchased).  I can see nothing better for Black than 12...Bb7 13.bxc3 Bxf3 14.gxf3 Bxc3+ 15.Ke2! Nc6 16.Bh3, after which, whatever winning chances exist certainly belong to White.  I am not enough of a technician to be very sure of the degree of Black's drawing chances, but I assume that they're fairly substantial.  I find this line unappetizing for Black, but I might not feel that way if the draw were a mere matter of technique. 

In general in chess opening theory, I think that Black can be satisfied with a draw that is readily accessible with fairly evident technique, but not with one over which he has to puzzle very hard.


Your "15.Ke2!" is 'drivel' of course. With the king already on d1 white has better moves, and should have good chances to play for the win.

It seems to me that ...d6 is the problem.

How about 6...Nc6 7.Bg5 Qb6 8.Ne5 Nxe5 9.Qxe5+ Qe6 seems to hold. So maybe 7.e4 is best 7...Be7 8.Bc4 0-0 9.Bf4 d6 10.0-0-0 and white has an edge obviously, but maybe black can get enough counter-play for the eventual loss of d6. At least there seems to be some tricks after 10...Be6 11.Qd3 Qb6 12.Bxe6 fxe6 13.Bxd6 Nb4 etc


Edit, there is another old thread on this subject:
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1085643061
« Last Edit: 10/29/10 at 20:41:12 by TalJechin »  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #30 - 10/29/10 at 18:18:56
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Markovich wrote on 03/25/10 at 13:13:54:
Markovich wrote on 08/17/09 at 12:45:23:
Returning to the original topic, I think that Palliser's Modern Benoni Revealed is an outstanding book.  I have some issues with mode of organization of the "Revealed" series, but notwithstanding that, Palliser's book is quite readable and jammed with useful information.  Also Palliser is an avid practitioner of the Modern Benoni and as such, dishes out a lot of useful practical advice.

Having said that, I would like to call attention to a small error in this book.  Against 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3, Palliser advocates 2...c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.Nxd5 Nxd5 6.Qxd5 d6 "!" and remarks that after 7.Ng5 (7.e4 is more usual) 7...Qf6 Black is good in the complications that follow.  But Black is by no means good after 8.Nxh7!, which just wins a pawn.  There is a GM game from the 90s (sorry, I forget who the players were) that continued 8...Qf5 9.Qxf5 Bxf5 10.Nxf8 and now with 10...Nc6?! Black pretended that he had comp.  White allowed himself to be bluffed and played 10.c3.  But 10.Bf4! would have left Black even worse off than if he'd played 10...Kxf8.  So much for 7...Qf6!  

If Black's previous play can be justified, it must be by means of 7...Qe7.  However this doesn't look too terribly bad for Black, So I think that 3...e6 may hold up.  Black also has 3...b5!?, of course, but I would think that a Modern Benoni player might prefer 3...e6 with its invitation to "forgive and forget" after 4.c4.

Last of all, as pointed out by Palliser, Black can fall back on 2...e6.  This is unobjectionable, but it does require him to prepare for the Torre and the London.


More on this subject.  I've looked some more at 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.Nxd5 Nxd5 6.Qxd5 d6 7.Ng5 Qe7, and I really don't like Black's game after 8.Bf4 Be6 9.Nxe6 fxe6 10.Qh5+.  E.g. 10...g6 11.Qg4 appears to be "w" in my parlance (http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1266527927) . So my provisional conclusion is that 4...exd5 is no good.

However 4...b5 looks quite interesting.  We discussed this briefly before, though I have been unable to locate the thread.  I recall saying that 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.Nxb5 d5 7.Nc3 looked strong to me, intending soon e2-e4.  But more recently I noticed 7...Be7 8.e4 d4! 9.e5 dxc3 10.exf3 Qxd1+ 11.Kxd1 Bxf6 and Black seems to be O.K.  To take advantage of 7...Be7 it would seem that White has to refrain from 8.e4. 


I've looked further at this, and I've concluded that after 11...Bxf6, Black confronts a dreary endgame after 12.Rb1! (as opposed to 12.b3= as mentioned in the DW book, which I have since purchased).  I can see nothing better for Black than 12...Bb7 13.bxc3 Bxf3 14.gxf3 Bxc3+ 15.Ke2! Nc6 16.Bh3, after which, whatever winning chances exist certainly belong to White.  I am not enough of a technician to be very sure of the degree of Black's drawing chances, but I assume that they're fairly substantial.  I find this line unappetizing for Black, but I might not feel that way if the draw were a mere matter of technique. 

In general in chess opening theory, I think that Black can be satisfied with a draw that is readily accessible with fairly evident technique, but not with one over which he has to puzzle very hard.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #29 - 03/30/10 at 07:59:27
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Markovich wrote on 03/29/10 at 12:51:42:
Taken line for line, work is generally up a fairly high standard, I agree, though a certain bias does seem to creep in.  My main critique is global: if you look critically at the basic idea it often turns out to be dubious.  I'm not sure about your repertoire point, since the lines recommended are usually so offbeat that they don't often seem like plausible candidates for including in anyone's repertoire.

I've looked some more at the "Pseudo-Blumenfeld," for example, and I have some doubts about the soundness of the pawn sac.  I don't have the relevant DW book, of course.

I wonder if anyone really needs to buy a $25 book just to learn that there are some dicey ideas out there.  It's enough to know the table of contents so that you can be prepared for the particular dicey ideas that have been popularized, then hope someone plays one of them.  Maybe I'm over-stating my case, since not all these DW books are the same. 

I admit that I'm pretty disgusted with the whole DW/SOS thing.  Although I've given in and bought three or four of these, I sort of wish I hadn't.


I have the e4 e5 and Open Sicilian DW and I find them overall pretty good. It all depends what you are looking for. Not all suggestions are viable but most of the time they are refreshing looks at neglected ideas.

  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #28 - 03/29/10 at 12:51:42
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Taken line for line, work is generally up a fairly high standard, I agree, though a certain bias does seem to creep in.  My main critique is global: if you look critically at the basic idea it often turns out to be dubious.  I'm not sure about your repertoire point, since the lines recommended are usually so offbeat that they don't often seem like plausible candidates for including in anyone's repertoire.

I've looked some more at the "Pseudo-Blumenfeld," for example, and I have some doubts about the soundness of the pawn sac.  I don't have the relevant DW book, of course.

I wonder if anyone really needs to buy a $25 book just to learn that there are some dicey ideas out there.  It's enough to know the table of contents so that you can be prepared for the particular dicey ideas that have been popularized, then hope someone plays one of them.  Maybe I'm over-stating my case, since not all these DW books are the same. 

I admit that I'm pretty disgusted with the whole DW/SOS thing.  Although I've given in and bought three or four of these, I sort of wish I hadn't.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #27 - 03/29/10 at 12:39:15
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Markovich wrote on 03/29/10 at 12:27:20:
I hate those DW books because 2/3 of the content is more or less useless.  But perhaps I'll buy this one.


Useless as in not relevant to your repertoire, poor-quality analysis or the lines aren't sound enough for your liking? I can understand most of the book being irrelevant if you have a fairly narrow repertoire, although the DW series' main competitor, SOS, suffers from the same issue.

In my experience, the broader one's repertoire is, the more one benefits from such books. Some chapters are better than others, but generally speaking each of the chapters have original analysis, well selected games, accurate evaluations of positions and are thorough in their coverage.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #26 - 03/29/10 at 12:27:20
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I hate those DW books because 2/3 of the content is more or less useless.  But perhaps I'll buy this one.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #25 - 03/29/10 at 09:27:18
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However 4...b5 looks quite interesting.  We discussed this briefly before, though I have been unable to locate the thread.


I think there might have even been two threads on this but I'm not going to bother looking them up because I think you should probably buy Dangerous Weapons: The Benoni and Benko.  Besides chapters on other useful information the last chapter is devoted to the 4...b5 gambit which Palliser dubs the Pseudo-Blumenfeld Gambit.
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #24 - 03/26/10 at 13:44:02
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bump.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #23 - 03/25/10 at 13:13:54
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Markovich wrote on 08/17/09 at 12:45:23:
Returning to the original topic, I think that Palliser's Modern Benoni Revealed is an outstanding book.  I have some issues with mode of organization of the "Revealed" series, but notwithstanding that, Palliser's book is quite readable and jammed with useful information.  Also Palliser is an avid practitioner of the Modern Benoni and as such, dishes out a lot of useful practical advice.

Having said that, I would like to call attention to a small error in this book.  Against 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3, Palliser advocates 2...c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.Nxd5 Nxd5 6.Qxd5 d6 "!" and remarks that after 7.Ng5 (7.e4 is more usual) 7...Qf6 Black is good in the complications that follow.  But Black is by no means good after 8.Nxh7!, which just wins a pawn.  There is a GM game from the 90s (sorry, I forget who the players were) that continued 8...Qf5 9.Qxf5 Bxf5 10.Nxf8 and now with 10...Nc6?! Black pretended that he had comp.  White allowed himself to be bluffed and played 10.c3.  But 10.Bf4! would have left Black even worse off than if he'd played 10...Kxf8.  So much for 7...Qf6!  

If Black's previous play can be justified, it must be by means of 7...Qe7.  However this doesn't look too terribly bad for Black, So I think that 3...e6 may hold up.  Black also has 3...b5!?, of course, but I would think that a Modern Benoni player might prefer 3...e6 with its invitation to "forgive and forget" after 4.c4.

Last of all, as pointed out by Palliser, Black can fall back on 2...e6.  This is unobjectionable, but it does require him to prepare for the Torre and the London.


More on this subject.  I've looked some more at 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.Nxd5 Nxd5 6.Qxd5 d6 7.Ng5 Qe7, and I really don't like Black's game after 8.Bf4 Be6 9.Nxe6 fxe6 10.Qh5+.  E.g. 10...g6 11.Qg4 appears to be "w" in my parlance (http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1266527927) . So my provisional conclusion is that 4...exd5 is no good.

However 4...b5 looks quite interesting.  We discussed this briefly before, though I have been unable to locate the thread.  I recall saying that 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.Nxb5 d5 7.Nc3 looked strong to me, intending soon e2-e4.  But more recently I noticed 7...Be7 8.e4 d4! 9.e5 dxc3 10.exf3 Qxd1+ 11.Kxd1 Bxf6 and Black seems to be O.K.  To take advantage of 7...Be7 it would seem that White has to refrain from 8.e4.  I'm not sure if Black has full comp, but it looks worth testing.  Black would rather have his KB on d6, but on the other hand, he hasn't spent a tempo on a6 and it doesn't look like he'll have to.

If White plays more normally 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.Nxb5 d5 7.e3, it appears to me that after 7...a6 8.Nc3 Nc6 Black again has pretty good practical compensation.  I have a hunch you could score a lot of points with this gambit in open Swiss sections, notwithstanding that it has no discernable support at the top.

Instead of 5.dxe6, the more positional 5.Bg5 b4 6.Ne4 Bb7 7.Bxf6 gxf6 8.c4 bxc3 9.Nxc3 f5 looks quite interesting for either side.  I suppose you have to like White a little better, but as compensation for his ragged pawns, Black will have the two bishops, and the play will be fairly complex.  In this line White also has 6.Na4, but that line also looks both complicated and playable for Black. 

So I think the most testing line is to accept the pawn, though it gives Black serious practical chances with his central pawns and his potential play on the half-open f-file.

After 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5, I don't think that 3...b5 fits in too well with a Modern Benoni repertoire, since it throws away the chance to get back into the system after 3...e6 4.c4.  Also Black has to be willing to play the Benko declined that arises from 4.c4. 

In any case, Black's solid option is 2...e6, though he then has to be willing to play a Torre and also that Catalan/Symmetrical English borderland line, 3.g3 c5 4.Bg2 cxd4 5.Nxd4, or 4.c4 cxd4 5.Nxd4.  He'll also have to play the ...e6 version of the Colle, which is no big deal, but some people including me like the ...g6 version.  If I were developing an MB repertoire not linked to the Nimzo, I would probably have both 2...e6 and 2...c5 3.d4 b5 in my repertoire and pick my targets according to my perception of their vulnerability.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #22 - 08/19/09 at 09:00:18
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thibdb13 wrote on 08/18/09 at 15:11:12:
Markovich wrote on 08/18/09 at 14:39:44:
Is there any reason why I should buy this Franco book?  I already have Watson, Palliser and Vegh -- plus some older works.

It is a good book to have some more interesting examples of Benoni games but it is certainly not more than a little complement to Palliser's and Watson's books.
So, the only reason to buy this book is that it could enlarge your general culture about this opening.


I entirely endorse this view. It just depends on your willingness to spend on books. Not the best book, but some complementary and newer games than Watson's. I own Psakhis, Bellin & Ponzetto, Watson and Franco's and they all add things.

I only regret buying true lemmons. Benko Gambit Revealed or Lalic's Grunfeld being two not so horrendous examples. True pathetic ones had been Chris Baker Startling Opening Repertoire, Gufeld's Benko Gambit or Ehlvest the Leningrad Dutch. But otherwise 99% of the boos are excellent these days.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #21 - 08/18/09 at 16:03:27
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Markovich wrote on 08/18/09 at 14:39:44:
Is there any reason why I should buy this Franco book?  I already have Watson, Palliser and Vegh -- plus some older works.


I reviewed this book at Jeremy Silman's site, it's maybe worth a look.

http://jeremysilman.com/chess_gst_wrtrs/Chess_Explained_Modern_Benoni.html
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #20 - 08/18/09 at 15:11:12
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Markovich wrote on 08/18/09 at 14:39:44:
Is there any reason why I should buy this Franco book?  I already have Watson, Palliser and Vegh -- plus some older works.

It is a good book to have some more interesting examples of Benoni games but it is certainly not more than a little complement to Palliser's and Watson's books.
So, the only reason to buy this book is that it could enlarge your general culture about this opening.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #19 - 08/18/09 at 14:39:44
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Is there any reason why I should buy this Franco book?  I already have Watson, Palliser and Vegh -- plus some older works.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #18 - 08/18/09 at 11:38:08
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Not really, after having a look at the games provided by Zenon Franco in his book, I wanted to know about the alternatives
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #17 - 08/17/09 at 22:39:45
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Is there supposed to be something wrong with the old perhaps main line 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e6 4. Nc3 ed 5. ed d6 6. Nf3 g6 7. g3 Bg7 8. Bg2 0-0 9. 0-0 a6 10. a4 Nbd7 11. Nd2 Re8 12. h3 Rb8 12. Nc4 Nb6?
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #16 - 08/17/09 at 21:24:35
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Fernando Semprun wrote on 08/17/09 at 14:28:58:
I have not seen a thread discussing Fianchetto Variation. Any ideas / Suggestions?


Either follow Korchnoi-Kasparov, Lucerne 1982, or play the Dangerous Weapons line 9...Re8 10.Nd2 b6.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #15 - 08/17/09 at 14:28:58
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I have not seen a thread discussing Fianchetto Variation. Any ideas / Suggestions?
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #14 - 08/17/09 at 12:45:23
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Returning to the original topic, I think that Palliser's Modern Benoni Revealed is an outstanding book.  I have some issues with mode of organization of the "Revealed" series, but notwithstanding that, Palliser's book is quite readable and jammed with useful information.  Also Palliser is an avid practitioner of the Modern Benoni and as such, dishes out a lot of useful practical advice.

Having said that, I would like to call attention to a small error in this book.  Against 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3, Palliser advocates 2...c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.Nxd5 Nxd5 6.Qxd5 d6 "!" and remarks that after 7.Ng5 (7.e4 is more usual) 7...Qf6 Black is good in the complications that follow.  But Black is by no means good after 8.Nxh7!, which just wins a pawn.  There is a GM game from the 90s (sorry, I forget who the players were) that continued 8...Qf5 9.Qxf5 Bxf5 10.Nxf8 and now with 10...Nc6?! Black pretended that he had comp.  White allowed himself to be bluffed and played 10.c3.  But 10.Bf4! would have left Black even worse off than if he'd played 10...Kxf8.  So much for 7...Qf6!  

If Black's previous play can be justified, it must be by means of 7...Qe7.  However this doesn't look too terribly bad for Black, So I think that 3...e6 may hold up.  Black also has 3...b5!?, of course, but I would think that a Modern Benoni player might prefer 3...e6 with its invitation to "forgive and forget" after 4.c4.

Last of all, as pointed out by Palliser, Black can fall back on 2...e6.  This is unobjectionable, but it does require him to prepare for the Torre and the London.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #13 - 08/15/09 at 08:55:35
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I must apologise, first of all, to John Watson. I read his books years ago and wrote previous comments on my impressions then.

I had a look at his book last night and this morning and I found it amazing. He anticipates in many cases where theory is going to develop (or even develops the theory himself). He is incredibly detailed and, to be honest, far too advanced for whatever chess understanding I had/have.

There are a couple of instances where some lines have not stood the test of time or some nuances in the move order have appeared, but indeed it is a fantastic book. (perhaps too advanced for dogmatic players like me  Cool )

It is so through, though, that unless one already knows a fair amount of the Benoni, may not be the ideal 'starting out' guide, although one now would hope he writes more about openings!

He had a few areas where he pioneered important theoretical develpment/General insterest like the Chigorin, Symmetrical English, etc...

In the Qh4 lines he even declares that it certainly looks counter intuitive, but Zenon has a Gelfand game as Black playing the line!

I could have deleted previous post, but wanted to correct myself since there were people who had read it already...

Apologies, again, then.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #12 - 08/14/09 at 21:03:03
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Ok, he even joked about it in the Second edition of the French (if memory serves) regarding the exchange variation!

I am glad you believe he is objective. He certainly is very objective regarding his book reviews, and has the surprisingly uncommon grace not to review his own work... He was very kind to discuss an awful lot of things with many chess players until it got completely out of hand...

I find his enthusiasm for the lines he endorses is contageous, and you cannot help but believe he is right. But I indeed had a problem with his slightly better for black in the exchange var of the French and his Qh4 in the Taimanov. Whatever, his books have always been best on the subject at publishing time, I just feel that when complemented with others you get a more objective view.

THIS IS WRONG. SEE MY NEXT POST
« Last Edit: 08/15/09 at 08:36:54 by Fernando Semprun »  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #11 - 08/14/09 at 19:02:16
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I actually get the opposite feeling of Watson's books. I feel he's pretty objective and extremely thorough when it comes to his analysis. His Modern Benoni book is a true guide for how an opening book should be written. Plenty of useful explanation and reasoning, packed with original analysis, multiple lines and ideas per White try. It's awesome.
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #10 - 08/14/09 at 18:31:16
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Hidden identity wrote on 08/12/09 at 09:38:47:
I believe that is mainly the only problem with Watson's books, you would think black plays and wins with the French and/or Benoni!  Smiley Shocked


Really?  I don't get that impression from reading his books.  I wonder how many others do.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #9 - 08/12/09 at 09:38:47
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After having a look at Franco's Modern Benoni, I do have several solutions against 8.Bb5 (I would call this Taimanov). I find it more balanced and less dogmatic than Watson's, but use chessBase and your own head too. For example Watson is very adamant after Bg4-f3 against the classical, but things are not so clear-cut.

I believe that is mainly the only problem with Watson's books, you would think black plays and wins with the French and/or Benoni!  Smiley Shocked
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #8 - 08/04/09 at 17:59:46
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F22 wrote on 08/04/09 at 15:35:27:

One chould play the Nimzo against 3.Nc3 and the Benoni only after 3.Nf3, that way you avoid that undesirable variation but you have to learn the entire NID theory ...


Well, not the Entire NID theory, just the lines you intend to play  Wink  I don't think the Nimzo is that much to learn, and  Black has  having a very wide choice of how to play.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #7 - 08/04/09 at 15:35:27
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Markovich wrote on 08/04/09 at 13:12:22:
I would be interested in a Modern Benoni repertoire as well, if I thought that Black had anything sufficient against the so-called Flick-Knife.  But I have had so much success with this with the white pieces, that I find it hard to believe in it from the opposite side.


One chould play the Nimzo against 3.Nc3 and the Benoni only after 3.Nf3, that way you avoid that undesirable variation but you have to learn the entire NID theory ...
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #6 - 08/04/09 at 13:12:22
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MrCookie wrote on 08/02/09 at 10:04:39:
I would like a complete Modern benoni repertoire, are there any benoni repertoire books ? or do I need to make one up myself using different material?

thanks


I would be interested in a Modern Benoni repertoire as well, if I thought that Black had anything sufficient against the so-called Flick-Knife.  But I have had so much success with this with the white pieces, that I find it hard to believe in it from the opposite side.
  

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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #5 - 08/03/09 at 18:02:48
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I still remember how one of those Zeuthen Benoni books (maybe "Modern Benoni Dynamics:  Logics, Leitmotifs & Dialogues") had only this on the last page:  "got it?"      Smiley
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #4 - 08/03/09 at 17:11:13
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About Zeuthen's book; IT IS FROM 1973!! Forget variations, a lot of general ideas about the Benoni have changed since!! To see what has changed look at "Revolution in the 70s" chapter 23 where Kasparov discusses the Benoni for several pages.
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #3 - 08/03/09 at 05:57:05
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The old classic by Steffen Zeuthen is stunning. Must have taken an eternity to put together. I picked up a copy recently. A few floating around the web, e.g.

http://www.abaa.org/books/161015148.html

Truly outstanding piece of work. Dated, obviously. But everything is there regarding structure and ideas. You just need some moves....
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #2 - 08/03/09 at 00:39:32
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The Modern Benoni Revealed is the best introduction to the opening in my opinion.

I have all of these and I found that one most useful when I attempted to learn it.  I still struggle with it in my games though.
  
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Re: Modern Benoni Repertoire
Reply #1 - 08/02/09 at 12:49:03
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The "Guide to the Modern Benoni" by John Watson is a repetoire book and would be my main suggestion. There was some theoretical progress since then, on which one could update oneself via the corresponding ChessPublishing.com section.

There's also Modern Benoni (Starting Out) by Endre Vegh or The Modern and Benoni Revealed (Batsford Chess Books) by Richard Palliser, which presumably are not really repetoire books (I don't own them, so I do not really know), but might recommend certain lines. If you're looking for a less theoretical introduction, then Andy Martin has done a FritzTrainer for Chessbase, which presumably kind of hints a repetoire and which on Martin's past record may be entertainingly explained, but likely not really looking at all the important lines.
  
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Modern Benoni Repertoire
08/02/09 at 10:04:39
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I would like a complete Modern benoni repertoire, are there any benoni repertoire books ? or do I need to make one up myself using different material?

thanks
  
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