as said before the variation is playable only after 6...0-0, so here ...Qd8 is forced.
It's interesting to see 10.b5"!" in the previous post, at the moment is it considered best over 10...b6 ? with ...b6 Black obtains more active pieces but gives one more pawn, while with ...b5 he spends more time eating the Knight, and chances increase for a favourable (for White) Rook vs B+N ending. The ending may provide equal chances but it's a killer when Black is uncomfortable with this setting.

MNb wrote on 02/24/10 at 20:13:53:


Too fast, read the post again

It's a really difficult line to face OTB and black has to avoid many pitfalls because his uncoordinated army. I remember I was noticed about this line playing with black .

Holbox wrote on 02/24/10 at 10:08:37:


With all GM's (ao Euwe and Pachman) who have commented on this line I think Black is better after 9...Qg6 (iso the passive 9...Qd8). Na8 is lost, Black will within a few moves activate all light pieces while White struggles to find good squares for his rooks.

This defense used to be my main black weapon and I occasionally still use it. The Bauer ('Philidor Files') book is the best source I am aware of.. Also fun - but not so solid - are the recommendations given in the 'The Black Lion' book..

The absolute main line is:

1.e4 d6,2. d4 Nf6, 3.Nc3 Nbd7, 4.Nf3 e5, 5.Bc4 Be7, 6.0-0 0-0, 7.Re1 c6, 8.a4 b6 and black plays b6,Bb7 while white prepares to play d5 in the most desirable circumstance.. The evaluation is a slight += but black usually manages to equalize if white's name isn't Anatoly

The g4 gambit is not refuted by Bauer and I can't imagine any other book that could have its refutation in it.. I haven't seen the Shirov video but I suspect that the so called refutation leads to unclear/equal position and not to a black advantage.

The f4 lines are very dangerous to the unprepared - black has to play some "only moves" to stay alive - see Bauer for more.

I used to avoid the f4 lines by playing e5 at the 3rd move before Nbd7. This has the disadvantage that it allows a transposition to an ending that visually looks very advantageous for white..

1.e4 d6, 2.d4 Nf6, 3. Nc3 e5, 4.de de, 5.Qxd8 Kxd8, 6.Bc4

when both 6.. Ke8

and 6... Be6, 7.Bxe6 fe6 and black will develop Bd6, Ke7 and start a queenside pawn storm

I prefer the latter (see Zurab Azmaiparashvili games and the Bauer book for more on this ending)

The Ng5-e6-c7-a8 line mentioned in this thread leads to a Black advantage after 10...b5! and white is in trouble - see the Bauer book

chk wrote on 02/24/10 at 08:29:08:


I know all this. The first was quite deeply dealed with by Stefan Bücker in his coloum at chesscafe.com. He calls it the French Attack and dedicated 3 chapters to it. You may find it in chesscafe-archive (I hope...)

But back again: What is the refutation Shirov gives on his Philidor DVD to his own invention (that is the Shirov Gambit 1.d4 d6 2.e4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7 5.g4!?) according to JEH?
Can anyone give me some of his lines?
I only know that it this gambit is a highly complex thing and that the g-file and the accelerated development give white plenty of play. Once there was a thread on that subject, don't known whether it is still online - one of the best I read here at that. Very insightful with quite a few participants being very engaged.
So to them it too would be interesting to see the refutation - if it exists.

cheese

I liked to play in this way:

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nd7 5.Bc4 Be7 6.Ng5 0-0 7.Bf7 Rf7 8.Ne6 Qe8 9.Nc7 Qd8 10.Na8

With a somewhat non conventional and dynamic position. Who is better? Why? and How much? What do you think?

JEH wrote on 08/05/09 at 15:53:27:


Oh, I havn't heard of a refutation of Shirov's Gambit - and that by the master himself. How does tame his own invention? Do you have a few lines?
Thx
cheese

@ Markovich:

Do you own Tony Kosten's excellent "Winning with the Philidor"? It includes a chapter on the Hanham. Start there and extend Tony's analysis on your own. Also check the more recent "The Philidor Files".
Don't you think White should be able to prove a small advantage against the Hanham? It's a rather passive setup for Black after all.
I recall Tony stopped playing it when his opponents started to play his best recommendations for White.