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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6 (Read 31666 times)
Michael Ayton
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Re: Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
Reply #8 - 08/11/09 at 14:34:31
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Love those asterisks!
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
Reply #7 - 08/11/09 at 14:32:39
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Well, I'm not a partisan exactly of either colour, but White scores quite well after 6 a3 Bc5 7 Nb3 Be7, though there's a huge incidence of draws. I don't yet know nearly enough about these positions to understand the subtleties of how the position after 8 e4 compares with similar Hedgehogs -- can anyone help here? Presumably the Nb3 is going to be rerouted (to d2?), so maybe one question is, how important is time in this position?

Whatever the truth, I'm sure this position offers damn good training for someone wanting to appreciate these structures! And at club level at least, I'm sure the player with the better appreciation will win ...
  
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Markovich
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Re: Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
Reply #6 - 08/11/09 at 13:50:33
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Well since the partisans of the white pieces haven't spoken, I will say that I think the most critcal tries after 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 are 6.g3 Qb6 7.Ndb5 and the immediate 6.Nbd5.  Personally I don't think 6.a3 is so very impressive, for example 6...Bc5 7.Nb3 Be7.
  

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Re: Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
Reply #5 - 08/10/09 at 14:20:50
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Uruk wrote on 08/10/09 at 05:17:33:
Indeed there was a nice short draw with 6.g3 in this year's Linares:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1535816

I remember finding no alternatives that set the world on fire.

Maybe BPaulsen, who says the Symmetrical brings an "undoubted" advantage, could comment.


There is lot of theory on this line, which as you point out, the merits of which we've been debating on another thread.  We never got very specific, so maybe this is the place to do so.  It might be useful if the White partisans went first.

White is playing with a space advantage, but Black has the extra central pawn.
  

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Michael Ayton
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Re: Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
Reply #4 - 08/10/09 at 14:19:48
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Wild game, Uruk -- thanks.

But I think I'd better admit to being a bit dopey at the moment!  Embarrassed For some reason I'd not looked at the the A33 stuff on ChessPublishing, where there are several exciting games with 6 a3!?. OK this may not 'set the world on fire' and objectively Black may well be OK, but it strikes me as a very interesting line if you like playing with a space advantage, and there are quite a few inspiring high-level games from which to draw ideas.
  
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Uruk
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Re: Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
Reply #3 - 08/10/09 at 05:17:33
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Indeed there was a nice short draw with 6.g3 in this year's Linares:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1535816

I remember finding no alternatives that set the world on fire.

Maybe BPaulsen, who says the Symmetrical brings an "undoubted" advantage, could comment.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
Reply #2 - 08/09/09 at 23:20:01
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Sorry, kylemeister! Interested as we chessplayers all are in the psychology of an error, you must have wondered ‘What the …??’. The reason, I’m embarrassed to say, is just that I had games with 3 …Nc6 rather than 3 …e6 on my screen and, being in mad haste, confused the two positions – which is a useful reminder, I guess, that 4 e4 (and 4 e3) is possible after 3 …Nc6 too. But I’m still interested in those sixth-move alternatives …
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
Reply #1 - 08/08/09 at 16:04:48
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I think it would be uncommon for a normal Maroczy position to be reached after 3...e6 4. e4.  It's not happening after 4...Nc6 4. d4 cd 5. Nxd4 Bb4 or 4...Nc6 5. Be2 d5, for example.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Symmetrical English 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6
08/08/09 at 14:05:31
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I have a ‘repertoire’ question relating to the position after 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6. Originally I was thinking, by playing 4 d4 rather than 4 g3 here, I could, should I so wish, avoid the Tarrasch and Keres-Parma (not out of esteem of them, but just so as to concentrate on other parts of the possible repertoire, e.g. the Maroczy Bind). But Davies says (p. 71) that 4 …cd 5 Nd4 e6 6 g3 Qb6! is not great for White, and so it indeed seems. White has other sixth moves, though, and I’m wondering why Davies doesn’t mention these. Has anyone experience/knowledge of [i]6 Ndb5[/i], [i]6 a3,[/i] [i]6 Bf4[/i] or [i]6 Bg5[/i], which are common tries (the first two anyway) and seem quite decent?

Of course the original ‘thought’ is not impeccably logical, since after 3 …e6 instead of 3 …Nc6, to avoid a Tarrasch or K-P White would probably have to play the fairly rare [i]4 e4!?[/i] (4 e3 could produce a Semi-Tarrasch or Panov-Botvinnik Caro-Kann), but then that's all right, since it offers good chances of a Maroczy Bind occurring!

  
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