Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lowenthal variation of Sicilian (Read 32006 times)
Ender
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 408
Joined: 05/22/06
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #29 - 08/20/12 at 17:09:01
Post Tools
Thank you. I will check these sources. I'm surprised that there is no single book about such interesting variation.
  

2200. Amateur!
Back to top
ICQ  
IP Logged
 
TN
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #28 - 08/19/12 at 14:17:14
Post Tools
There was an article by Stefan Buecker not so long ago on Chesscafe on the Lowenthal. Other than that there are the usual sources like Chess Publishing, Kaissiber, NIC Yearbooks, Informants, TWICs etc.

Without giving too much away I should mention that 8.Qd1 is recommended by De La Villa in 'Dismantling the Sicilian' and 8.Qd2 in Bologan's Repertoire DVD. I understand if you aren't willing to buy a book for their recommendation in one line but you can always analyse the critical lines yourself, of course.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ender
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 408
Joined: 05/22/06
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #27 - 08/18/12 at 13:19:46
Post Tools
Thank you! I didn't knew this option!

I did not found anything on chessbase www. Is there any book about it? I know DW, but maybe something else?
  

2200. Amateur!
Back to top
ICQ  
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2129
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #26 - 08/18/12 at 12:28:43
Post Tools
Ender wrote on 08/18/12 at 11:54:20:
Hi guys! Is there any chessbase DVD about this system?


You can search:
http://chessbase-shop.com/en/new_products
On the left is a link 'Product finder with board'. Red chessy square.
Key in the moves, hey presto.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ender
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 408
Joined: 05/22/06
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #25 - 08/18/12 at 11:54:20
Post Tools
Hi guys! Is there any chessbase DVD about this system?
  

2200. Amateur!
Back to top
ICQ  
IP Logged
 
PANFR
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 251
Location: Greece
Joined: 10/31/11
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #24 - 11/12/11 at 13:53:49
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 11/12/11 at 06:35:07:
From the position shown in #9, 20...Bxf5 21.gxf5 Ne7 22.Rd1 Kc7 23.0-0 Rd6 24.Rde1 and I prefer White. Only the last move is original to me (so far as I know).

I will stand by for some hoop-jumping analysis by Black's partisans.


The first remark is that Black needn't commit himself that early with ...Bxf5. 20...Nf6 certainly makes sense, where "Dangerous Weapons" also go shallow and take immediately on g6, which is certainly not best (giving Black counterplay on the h-file).
The second one is that, since ...f6 is rather forced at some time, Black can omit (in your line) 23...Rd6, and pick 23...f6 instead. Actually both moves featured in a game. After 23...Rd6 white won because he was a stronger (correspondence) player, while after 23...f6 the game was drawn, because both players (not high rated) did not play optimally.
I have put the position after 20.f5 to Arena, and made a 12-rounds match between Deep Rybka 4.1 and Houdini 1.5a. No surprise for me that all games ended in a draw. I can pass you the pgn, if interested (although I guess it's hardly useful, machines cannot grab the positional nuances of such positions).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
PANFR
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 251
Location: Greece
Joined: 10/31/11
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #23 - 11/12/11 at 13:30:31
Post Tools
Glenn Snow wrote on 11/12/11 at 07:08:19:
Off topic still and not that interesting but an important repertoire consideration but mostly I wanted to point out that I meant 3...e5 of course.


3...e5 is a very solid, if somewhat commital/boring answer. I do believe that white has some dim chances of an opening advantage in the opening sequence 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2!? e5, where hae can easily switch both knigkts against the d5 square, but with the knight already on f3 the whole concept has less punch.
I was sceptical about puncturing d5 that early, but after discussing the variation in to some detail with GM Stratos Grivas (who is using 3...e5 regularly when White tries to avoid his pet "Grivas Sicilian" with 3.Nc3) I was convinced that Black should be OK.
The other option to avoid bulk mainlines is of course 3...g6, where black has avoided the worst of the Accelerated Dragon bulk of theory (which is the dreaded Maroczy Bind, of course).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1683
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #22 - 11/12/11 at 07:08:19
Post Tools
Glenn Snow wrote on 11/06/11 at 00:32:27:
If you do decide to go ahead with Lowenthal you will also have to be prepared to face 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 when White has the option of playing d4 unless Black plays 3...d5.
  Off topic still and not that interesting but an important repertoire consideration but mostly I wanted to point out that I meant 3...e5 of course.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #21 - 11/12/11 at 06:35:07
Post Tools
From the position shown in #9, 20...Bxf5 21.gxf5 Ne7 22.Rd1 Kc7 23.0-0 Rd6 24.Rde1 and I prefer White. Only the last move is original to me (so far as I know).

I will stand by for some hoop-jumping analysis by Black's partisans.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
PANFR
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 251
Location: Greece
Joined: 10/31/11
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #20 - 11/11/11 at 21:35:24
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 11/11/11 at 20:34:39:
It was a short, superficial article: www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss22.pdf which included a flawed analysis of 8.Qc7 (more on the latter in www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss29.pdf ). The Löwenthal may be slightly better for White, but imo 8.Qd1 is less critical than 8.Qc7.

After 8.Qd1 ... Qe4+, I didn't mention 11.Be2. By the way, after 11...Nd4 12.Nc7+ Ke7 you also mention 13.Kf1. It seems that Black has a pretty reply: 13...Nxe2 14.Nxa8 Bh3!! 15.gxh3 Nf6 16.Nb6 Rd8 17.Qe1 Qxh1+ 18.Kxe2 Qe4+ 19.Be3 Nh5 20.Qg1 Nf4+ 21.Kf1 Kf8! =.


Ah, thank you! Very helpful.
I was aware of that pretty variation, since it was mentioned in "Dangerous Weapons". However, the author claimed that 17...Qxh1+ is inaccurate, and 17...Qf3 is the way to play. But Houdini had no trouble to find that actually both moves lead to a forced draw.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1382
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #19 - 11/11/11 at 20:34:39
Post Tools
PANFR wrote on 11/11/11 at 17:51:49:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 11/11/11 at 13:10:59:
I wrote about the Löwenthal Variation. 8.Qd1 is relatively harmless imo.
16...Nf6 17.Bg5 Rd8 18.Qc1 Bf5 19.b4 Qd4 20.g4 Bd3 =, e.g. 21.Bxd3 Qxd3+ 22.Kf2 Nxa1 23.Qxa1 e4!.


Ah, thanks. I was not aware of this analysis. Has it been at Kaissiber, or here? I could not spot something.
16...Nf6 certainly looks like an improvement for black, since 19.g4 (instead of 19.b4) Bd3 20.Bxd3 Rxd3 21.Kg2 h6 looks about equal, too.

It was a short, superficial article: www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss22.pdf which included a flawed analysis of 8.Qc7 (more on the latter in www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss29.pdf ). The Löwenthal may be slightly better for White, but imo 8.Qd1 is less critical than 8.Qc7.

After 8.Qd1 ... Qe4+, I didn't mention 11.Be2. By the way, after 11...Nd4 12.Nc7+ Ke7 you also mention 13.Kf1. It seems that Black has a pretty reply: 13...Nxe2 14.Nxa8 Bh3!! 15.gxh3 Nf6 16.Nb6 Rd8 17.Qe1 Qxh1+ 18.Kxe2 Qe4+ 19.Be3 Nh5 20.Qg1 Nf4+ 21.Kf1 Kf8! =.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
PANFR
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 251
Location: Greece
Joined: 10/31/11
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #18 - 11/11/11 at 17:51:49
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 11/11/11 at 13:10:59:
I wrote about the Löwenthal Variation. 8.Qd1 is relatively harmless imo.
16...Nf6 17.Bg5 Rd8 18.Qc1 Bf5 19.b4 Qd4 20.g4 Bd3 =, e.g. 21.Bxd3 Qxd3+ 22.Kf2 Nxa1 23.Qxa1 e4!.


Ah, thanks. I was not aware of this analysis. Has it been at Kaissiber, or here? I could not spot something.
16...Nf6 certainly looks like an improvement for black, since 19.g4 (instead of 19.b4) Bd3 20.Bxd3 Rxd3 21.Kg2 h6 looks about equal, too.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1382
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #17 - 11/11/11 at 13:10:59
Post Tools
PANFR wrote on 11/11/11 at 10:02:33:
IMO in the main line with 8.Qd1 Qg6 9.Nc3 d5 10.Nxd5 Qxe4+ Black is almost busted after 11.Be2! Nd4 12.Nc7+ Ke7 13.f3 (13.Kf1 is also interesting) Nxc2+ (or 13...Qc6 14.Nxa8 Nxc2+ etc) 14.Kf2 Qc6 15.Nxa8 Qc5+ 16.Kf1 Nxa1 17.b4!
Now "Dangerous Weapons" gives 17...Qc2! 18.Nb6 Nf6 19.Be3 Qxd1 20.Bxd1 Nd7!? 21.Ba4 when black is OK after 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bd7 or 22...Bf5. But after 21.Ke2! Black is in deep trouble with the stranded knight at a1.
I could not find anything convincing for black: 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bf5 23.Kd2! Rc8 24.g4 Bd7 25.Bc5+, or 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bd7!? 23.Kd2 (23.f4 also looks very good for white) Rc8 24.Bc5+ Ke6 (24...Kf6 25.f4!) 25.Be2 and black is almost lost.
Black may have to play 17...Qc6, although 18.Bd3 Nf6 19.Be3 also looks better for white.
So, the only variation for black is Vallejo's preferred one, 9...Nge7 10.h4 h5 11.Bg5 d5 12.ed5 Nd4! 13.Bd3 Bf5 14.Bxf5 Ndxf5! as in Efimenko- Pons, where Black has very interesting positional compensation for the sacrificed pawn.

I wrote about the Löwenthal Variation. 8.Qd1 is relatively harmless imo.
16...Nf6 17.Bg5 Rd8 18.Qc1 Bf5 19.b4 Qd4 20.g4 Bd3 =, e.g. 21.Bxd3 Qxd3+ 22.Kf2 Nxa1 23.Qxa1 e4!.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
PANFR
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 251
Location: Greece
Joined: 10/31/11
Gender: Male
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #16 - 11/11/11 at 10:02:33
Post Tools
IMO in the main line with 8.Qd1 Qg6 9.Nc3 d5 10.Nxd5 Qxe4+ Black is almost busted after 11.Be2! Nd4 12.Nc7+ Ke7 13.f3 (13.Kf1 is also interesting) Nxc2+ (or 13...Qc6 14.Nxa8 Nxc2+ etc) 14.Kf2 Qc6 15.Nxa8 Qc5+ 16.Kf1 Nxa1 17.b4!
Now "Dangerous Weapons" gives 17...Qc2! 18.Nb6 Nf6 19.Be3 Qxd1 20.Bxd1 Nd7!? 21.Ba4 when black is OK after 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bd7 or 22...Bf5. But after 21.Ke2! Black is in deep trouble with the stranded knight at a1.
I could not find anything convincing for black: 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bf5 23.Kd2! Rc8 24.g4 Bd7 25.Bc5+, or 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bd7!? 23.Kd2 (23.f4 also looks very good for white) Rc8 24.Bc5+ Ke6 (24...Kf6 25.f4!) 25.Be2 and black is almost lost.
Black may have to play 17...Qc6, although 18.Bd3 Nf6 19.Be3 also looks better for white.
So, the only variation for black is Vallejo's preferred one, 9...Nge7 10.h4 h5 11.Bg5 d5 12.ed5 Nd4! 13.Bd3 Bf5 14.Bxf5 Ndxf5! as in Efimenko- Pons, where Black has very interesting positional compensation for the sacrificed pawn.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #15 - 11/06/11 at 02:29:23
Post Tools
Blunderer wrote on 11/05/11 at 20:16:11:
Thanks chaps - clearly i need to spend a bit more time looking at it, as you seem to have a much more negative view of the position than i do.

I think you could do well enough at the club level, just playing right into the teeth of that ending and knowing it better than your opponent. There are other dangerous lines, of course, but the same goes for them.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo