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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lowenthal variation of Sicilian (Read 43392 times)
TN
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #14 - 11/06/11 at 00:36:47
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Expanding on Glenn Snow's post, an interesting sideline that may appeal to Lowenthal players is 3...e5 4.Bc4 h6 followed by ...g6, ...d6, ...Bg7, ...Nge7 and ...0-0, playing a Botvinnik setup. It's a bit better for White, of course, but the ideas for Black are very simple and recurring, like in the Lowenthal.
  

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Glenn Snow
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #13 - 11/06/11 at 00:32:27
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If you do decide to go ahead with Lowenthal you will also have to be prepared to face 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 when White has the option of playing d4 unless Black plays 3...d5.
  
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Blunderer
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #12 - 11/05/11 at 20:16:11
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Thanks chaps - clearly i need to spend a bit more time looking at it, as you seem to have a much more negative view of the position than i do.
  
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #11 - 11/05/11 at 18:29:09
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That's what I had in mind and yes, I would much rather be White.
  

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TN
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #10 - 11/05/11 at 12:48:53
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In my opinion (after looking at the position for two seconds) only White has winning chances in the diagram position. That Black won is due to the difference in rating rather than the evaluation of the position.
  

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Blunderer
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #9 - 11/05/11 at 10:07:25
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I guess this is the line you were referrring to, with the diagram being a critical position after move 20.

I'm not quite sure how this positin should be assessed,  clearly the 2 bishops and the potential passers on the queenside look quite attractive.

That said, I'm not convinced that White will keep the two bishops, Black's knights have got some nice squares, and the black rooks will become quite active.

The computer seems to take the view that its equal.
« Last Edit: 11/05/11 at 11:47:14 by GMTonyKosten »  
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #8 - 11/05/11 at 05:20:37
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I would much rather be White in the critical ending that arises after 8.Qd1, which I believe to be the best move.
  

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TN
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #7 - 11/05/11 at 01:28:27
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Blunderer wrote on 11/04/11 at 23:34:44:
you know I'm not saying Black simply equalises  Wink

But most sources seem to indicate a clear advantage.

Clearly computer assessments need to be taken with a pince of salt, but Houdini seems to be getting pretty close to equality in the Qf6 and Qd1 lines i have looked at


Of course. I know Tony Rotella's book 'The Killer Sicilian' is due to be published, but I don't remember if he covers 5...a6 as well as 5...d6.

You are right that most books tend to not take the Lowenthal seriously, which you can take advantage of to score a lot of points in practice.

On second thoughts, 8.Qd1 is probably stronger than 8.Qc7.
  

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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #6 - 11/04/11 at 23:34:44
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you know I'm not saying Black simply equalises  Wink

But most sources seem to indicate a clear advantage.

Clearly computer assessments need to be taken with a pince of salt, but Houdini seems to be getting pretty close to equality in the Qf6 and Qd1 lines i have looked at
  
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #5 - 11/04/11 at 23:12:17
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Blunderer wrote on 11/04/11 at 21:52:02:
I've finally decided to give the Sicilian a try after concluding i've had enough of the french (the opening not the people).

I kind of suspect that I'm more likely to face the anti sicilians rather than the main lines so am looking for an easy short term system based on an early Nc6.

I've spent a couple of hours looking at the Lowenthal now, using the Dangerous Weapons and Houdini - and it seems to me that this system is seriously under-rated. 

I'm not saying that Black equalises in all lines, but I'm struggling to find many lines where Black has much in the way on problems.

If anyone could point to any specific lines where they thing Black is up against it, could they please point me in the right direction

Thanks in advance


8.Qf6 and 8.Qc7 are the critical lines, both += in my opinion. But if you are able to prove equality then you could be on to a long-term answer to the Open Sicilian.  Smiley
  

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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #4 - 11/04/11 at 21:52:02
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I've finally decided to give the Sicilian a try after concluding i've had enough of the french (the opening not the people).

I kind of suspect that I'm more likely to face the anti sicilians rather than the main lines so am looking for an easy short term system based on an early Nc6.

I've spent a couple of hours looking at the Lowenthal now, using the Dangerous Weapons and Houdini - and it seems to me that this system is seriously under-rated. 

I'm not saying that Black equalises in all lines, but I'm struggling to find many lines where Black has much in the way on problems.

If anyone could point to any specific lines where they thing Black is up against it, could they please point me in the right direction

Thanks in advance
  
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joakimvitriol
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #3 - 05/15/10 at 08:09:41
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1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 e5 5. Nb5 a6 6. Nd6+ Bxd6 7. Qxd6 Qf6

So what is current state of theory about Lowenthal? Can white fight for the opening advantage with 8.Qd1 or with Khalifmans 8.Qxf6 or with first engine choices 8.Qc7 or 8.Qd3?

and in 8.Qd1 line how good is 11.Bg5 after 8.Qd1 Qg6 9. Nc3 Nge7 10. h4 h5?


In DW Sicilian Palliser criticized Kramniks rook lift 11.Rh3 vs. Vallejo Pons. Efimenko got only draw vs. Vallejo with Bg5:
[Event "FIDE World Cup"]
[Site "Khanty Mansiysk"]
[Date "2005.12.04"]
[Round "3.2"]
[White "Efimenko, Zahar"]
[Black "Vallejo Pons, Francisco"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B32"]
[WhiteElo "2637"]
[BlackElo "2674"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[EventDate "2005.11.27"]
[EventType "k.o."]
[EventRounds "7"]
[EventCountry "RUS"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2006.04.04"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 e5 5. Nb5 a6 6. Nd6+ Bxd6 7. Qxd6 Qf6 8.
Qd1 Qg6 9. Nc3 Nge7 10. h4 h5 11. Bg5 d5 12. exd5 Nd4 13. Bd3 Bf5 14. Bxf5
Ndxf5 15. Qd3 f6 16. Be3 Qg4 17. g3 Nxe3 18. Qxe3 Rd8 19. Rd1 O-O 20. O-O Nf5
21. Qe4 Nd4 22. Kg2 Qxe4+ 23. Nxe4 Nxc2 24. d6 Nd4 25. f4 Nf5 26. Rd3 Rfe8 27.
d7 Re7 28. fxe5 Rxe5 29. Rc1 Kf7 30. Rc8 Ke7 31. Nc5 Nd6 32. Rxd8 Kxd8 33. b4
b6 34. Rxd6 bxc5 35. bxc5 Rxc5 36. Rxa6 Kxd7 37. Ra7+ Ke6 38. Rxg7 Rc2+ 39. Kf3
1/2-1/2

Edit: Kramniks rook lift 11.Rh3 not 8.Rh3  Smiley
« Last Edit: 05/15/10 at 22:19:09 by joakimvitriol »  
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #2 - 08/12/09 at 19:59:28
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Palliser argues in DW Sicilian that the Löwenthal is playable (with 16...Bh5), but concedes that 16...Bc8 is unsound.
  
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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #1 - 08/12/09 at 14:34:30
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[quote author=solver1982 link=1250073071/0#0 3-Rd8,16.h3-Bc8,17.f4-ef4,18.Bf4-Ne6,19.Ne6-Be6,20.0-0 and white is clearly better according to Enciclopedia of Chess Openings,but I don't share that opinion.White's advantage is so small,because with precise play of Black,White has no avail of bishops pair. [/quote]

I would much rather be White.  Also my impression is that White's results from this position have been very good.  I don't have my database handy to check that, however.

Minor point: The norm here is to post in pgn fashion, so leave the dashes and commas out.
  

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maven82
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Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
08/12/09 at 10:31:05
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17.f4-ef4,18.Bf4-Ne6,19.Ne6-Be6,20.0-0 and white is clearly better according to Enciclopedia of Chess Openings,but I don't share that opinion.White's advantage is so small,because with precise play of Black,White has no avail of bishops pair.
  
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