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Normal Topic 2...Nc6, 4...d5 (Read 2653 times)
SWJediknight
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Re: 2...Nc6, 4...d5
Reply #6 - 08/28/09 at 12:49:39
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I remember this being discussed a while ago on here.

I got caught up in this with the White pieces once when I was playing the Morra at the local club and my opponent kept declining with ...d5 (probably playing by analogy with the Danish/Goring- but it doesn't work as well against the Morra).  One game continued 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Nxd4 d5 (I think he was still caught up in his "decline-with-d5" idea, not realising he was now in an Open Sicilian).

I recall that I didn't play the critical line but nonetheless got a better position out of the opening.  IMHO the ending below looks pretty unpleasant for Black.  Perhaps White should consider Be3 (eyeing the weak b6-square) and planting the knight on c5 blockading the c-pawn, plus tying Black up to the defence of the a-pawn.
  
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Matemax
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Re: 2...Nc6, 4...d5
Reply #5 - 08/28/09 at 10:30:49
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I had a look at some games and it is interesting - 11...f5 followed by ...e5 gives a struggle between activity (Black) and structure (White). Some white games went 11...f5 12.Nc5 e5 13.Ne6 Kf7 14.Nf8 but here Black is probably really active enough for his structural deficites. I looked at one game (played by 2 comps !?) where White chose 12.Ng5 and somehow managed to bring the knight back via f3 to d4 and then went on to win. This would be my first way to investigate and perhaps also the slightly passive looking 12.Nd2 is worth investigation.
  
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Markovich
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Re: 2...Nc6, 4...d5
Reply #4 - 08/27/09 at 17:04:44
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Matemax wrote on 08/27/09 at 16:15:58:
Perhaps it's not much - but a long way for a draw for Black. I don't think Black gets enough counterplay by pushing his kingside pawns trying to get a passed pawn on the e-file - his pawn weaknesses on a6 and c6 have to be protected.


I haven't analyzed it at all, but looking at the diagrams in the update, I wondered about the same thing.  Superfically it looks like Black's losing chances are definitely greater than White's.  Still Palliser seems to suggest that Black has chances, so perhaps it's worthy of study.
  

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Willempie
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Re: 2...Nc6, 4...d5
Reply #3 - 08/27/09 at 16:26:34
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I faced it once in rapid. I played Nb5 and got black into big trouble even without queens.
  

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Matemax
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Re: 2...Nc6, 4...d5
Reply #2 - 08/27/09 at 16:15:58
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Imo White gets a slightly better endgame after the main line of this variation:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 d5 5.Bb5 dxe4 6.Nxc6 Qxd1+ 7.Kxd1 a6 8.Ba4 Bd7 9.Nc3 Bxc6 10.Bxc6+ bxc6 11.Nxe4

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In the analysed game White at one point exchanges his bishop for the black knight (netting one more pawn island after ...gf6) - but I think that with this pawn formation White should keep the bishop (unfortunately Palliser does not comment on this exhange) - either an endgame with both bishop and knight or (if Black exchanges) bishop against (black) knight should favour him.

Perhaps it's not much - but a long way for a draw for Black. I don't think Black gets enough counterplay by pushing his kingside pawns trying to get a passed pawn on the e-file - his pawn weaknesses on a6 and c6 have to be protected.
  
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MartinC
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Re: 2...Nc6, 4...d5
Reply #1 - 08/27/09 at 16:02:05
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It looks unsportingly dull (and solid Smiley) to me. Would imagine it must be a good pshycological weapon vs open sicillian hackers. Build their hopes up then dash them Wink
  
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Markovich
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2...Nc6, 4...d5
08/27/09 at 13:06:23
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Palliser's updates have concerned this occasionally, and it's treated in this month's (August 2009) update.  So does anybody have any experience with this or an opinion about it?

I looked back four pages and could find nothing, so I started this thread.
  

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