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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Albin Counter-Gambit Question (Read 9027 times)
zoo
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #13 - 09/29/09 at 15:51:54
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One point of the Bf5/Nb4 plan is to dare ambitious Whites to sacrifice the exchange, with a lively game when they do. Or else, Black has to play ...c6 and Na6-c7 with a depressing position for both players, a bit like 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bf4 "==".
  
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #12 - 09/29/09 at 14:47:18
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Strongly suggest looking at the Moro/Barsky book. You will find this helpful in your quest.

Churning out Rybka evaluations of standard opening moves is perhaps not particularly helpful in the interim.
  
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #11 - 09/29/09 at 13:15:25
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Interesting lines, TN, but you seem to contradict yourself:

TN wrote on 09/07/09 at 10:09:31:
Schaakhamster wrote on 09/07/09 at 09:55:51:
Dean wrote on 09/06/09 at 22:07:37:
A problem with 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6?! is that white can get a very durable +=  by 3. Bf4!

Without both c5 and e5 black will suffer a bit.


I'm experimenting with 3. g3 which was recommended to me by a 2200 player. My initial experience is that white has a minimal but persistent edge. As with 3. Bf4 it takes advantage of the fact that the knight on c6 blocks the c-pawn.  


I agree with Schaakhamster and disagree with Dean.

a) 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bf4 does not offer White any edge whatsoever as shown by Wisnewski and Morozevich: 3...Bg4 4.e3 (other moves also fail to achieve anything) 4...e6 (preparing ...Bd6) 5.Nbd2 (5.Be2 Bd6 is fine for Black, as shown by Morozevich's blitz games on ICC, and the same applies for 5.Bb5 Bd6) 5...Bd6 6.Bd6 (6.Bg3 is less testing) 6...cd6 and Black has full equality with good counterplay. See Adorjan-Morozevich, Alushta 1994.

b) 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.g3 - I agree that this seems a bit better for White. Morozevich gives as his main line 3...Bf5 4.Bg2 (4.c3 is overcautious) 4...e6 5.0-0 Nb4! (my exclamation) 6.Na3 Be7 (Black has several alternatives but all of them fail to fully equalise) 7.c3 Na6 8.Qb3 Qc8 and now following Chuchelov-Godena, Mondariz 2000 with 9.Bg5!? seems to be the most promising route for White.

Personally I don't trust 3...Bg4 as advocated by Wisnewski since if White defends accurately he will be a good position to seize the initiative on the queenside and in the centre.




If you don't trust Bg4 although giving an equalizing main line, what's your alternative? I like this variation.

Also, regarding your 3.g3 line with 5..Nb4!?, Rybka doesn't like this move or any move you give after that for black (except Qc8). It says about 0.16 for 5..Nf6 as the best move, giving 5..Nb4 about 0.33 +/=. In your line it arrives at about 0.66 after 8..Qc8. It likes the knight retreating to c6 instead of a4 and playing Nf6 anyways instead of Le7.
Of course, i've only let it run middle-deep (depth 15) and it's difficult to trust in openings, but i don't get the point of 5..Nb4 anyways.

I wonder if the Black Swan Variation is really playable with Nxe5 instead of the Albin transposition (1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c4 e5 4.Nxe5), as the transposition makes the Albin a lot more likely to occur. Rybka (v3, 1cpu)gives 4 ..Nxe5, 5.dxe5, d4 and then 6.e3!? for white, with a seemingly forced ..Lc5 (Lb4+ seems bad) and a really strange computer line, better see the attached pgn instead of this mess:

Quote:
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c4 e5 4.Nxe5 Nxe5 5.dxe5 d4 6. e3 Bc5
( 6... Bb4+ 7. Nd2 Ne7 8. a3 Bxd2+ 9. Bxd2 Nc6 {0.89/13})
7. Na3 {"computer line"!?}
(7. exd4 Qxd4 8. Qxd4 Bxd4 9. f4 {0.39/14})
7... Bf5 8. Nb5 d3 9. Qf3 Ne7 10. Bd2 O-O 11. g4 Bc8 12. Qe4 Ng6 13. O-O-O a6 14. Nd4 Re8 15.
Bxd3)
6... Bb4+ 7. Bd2 Bc5 8. Qf3 Nh6 9. exd4 Bxd4
10. Bxh6 (10. Nc3 Ng4) 10... gxh6 11. Nc3 Qg5 12. Be2 (12. Qe4 Bxe5 13. Be2 Be6
$11))


I'd also like to discuss the main lines of the Albin. I'll use it at least as a secondary opening and i've already won an exciting 27-move game with it, but you really have to know a lot of variations and some of them i'm not yet convinced of.
For example, there is this short and effective line with 5.Nbd2, 6.Nb3 and 7. e4, where black is forced to take the pawn en passant, the queens are traded and i don't see black's compensation:
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 d4 4. Nf3 Nc6 5.Nbd2 Nge7 6. Nb3 Nf5!? (current theory move according to kasimdzhanov) 7. e4!? dxe3 8. Dxd8 Nxd8 9. fxe3 Nc6 10.Ld3 Le6 11.Nbd4 Nfxd4 which seems forced, restoring white's pawn structure.

a similiar line was pointed out by Michael Goeller in his Albin article:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/summer05/albin-nge7.htm

he gives 10. ..Nfe7 which seems passive but keeps white's doubled pawns.

what do you think about the albin in general? do you play it in tournament games? let me know  Cool


  

black_swan.pgn ( 0 KB | 179 Downloads )
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #10 - 09/08/09 at 15:17:04
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SWJediknight wrote on 09/08/09 at 14:46:17:
What do people think of also meeting 1.Nf3 with 1...Nc6 with a possible eye towards playing the Albin?  I recently played a blitz game with Black that went 1.Nf3 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.c4 e5 4.dxe5 d4.

The only flaws I can see with it are that it's no good if you aren't happy to meet 1.e4 with either 1...e5 or 1...Nc6, or like to meet the English and various slow systems stemming from the Reti with an early ...c5.


That topic was discussed twice already  Wink
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1196102062
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1234902906
  
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #9 - 09/08/09 at 14:46:17
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What do people think of also meeting 1.Nf3 with 1...Nc6 with a possible eye towards playing the Albin?  I recently played a blitz game with Black that went 1.Nf3 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.c4 e5 4.dxe5 d4.

The only flaws I can see with it are that it's no good if you aren't happy to meet 1.e4 with either 1...e5 or 1...Nc6, or like to meet the English and various slow systems stemming from the Reti with an early ...c5.
  
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #8 - 09/08/09 at 11:34:13
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1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bf4 Bg4 4. e3 e6 5. c4

Here Wisnewski gives 5...Bb4+ 6.Nc3 and now both 6...Nge7 and 6...Nf6 are satisfactory for Black.
  
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #7 - 09/07/09 at 20:56:32
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TN wrote on 09/07/09 at 10:09:31:
Schaakhamster wrote on 09/07/09 at 09:55:51:
Dean wrote on 09/06/09 at 22:07:37:
A problem with 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6?! is that white can get a very durable +=  by 3. Bf4!

Without both c5 and e5 black will suffer a bit.


I'm experimenting with 3. g3 which was recommended to me by a 2200 player. My initial experience is that white has a minimal but persistent edge. As with 3. Bf4 it takes advantage of the fact that the knight on c6 blocks the c-pawn.  


I agree with Schaakhamster and disagree with Dean.

a) 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bf4 does not offer White any edge whatsoever as shown by Wisnewski and Morozevich: 3...Bg4 4.e3 (other moves also fail to achieve anything) 4...e6 (preparing ...Bd6) 5.Nbd2 (5.Be2 Bd6 is fine for Black, as shown by Morozevich's blitz games on ICC, and the same applies for 5.Bb5 Bd6) 5...Bd6 6.Bd6 (6.Bg3 is less testing) 6...cd6 and Black has full equality with good counterplay. See Adorjan-Morozevich, Alushta 1994.

b) 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.g3 - I agree that this seems a bit better for White. Morozevich gives as his main line 3...Bf5 4.Bg2 (4.c3 is overcautious) 4...e6 5.0-0 Nb4! (my exclamation) 6.Na3 Be7 (Black has several alternatives but all of them fail to fully equalise) 7.c3 Na6 8.Qb3 Qc8 and now following Chuchelov-Godena, Mondariz 2000 with 9.Bg5!? seems to be the most promising route for White.

Personally I don't trust 3...Bg4 as advocated by Wisnewski since if White defends accurately he will be a good position to seize the initiative on the queenside and in the centre.




OK, I based my opinion on own experience and judgement (I bet Moro isn't too impressed Smiley ) and the "Win with the London System" Johnson/Kovacevic.

They claim that it has been "thoroughly tested at the top level" and
"the main line provides white with steady pressure at very low risk".

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6?! 3. Bf4! Bg4 4. e3 e6 5. c4! Bd6 and now 6. Bg3 has scored 65% in 55 games.

To me this looks like comfortable edge on the q-side for white with normal moves. Just let black take Bxg3 if he wants.

After 5... Nf6 white can play moves like Bg5, so 5... Bd6 seems more critical.

Until stronger counter-evidence, I will continue to play the 3. Bf4! and enjoy my middlegame +=  Smiley

  
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #6 - 09/07/09 at 16:15:06
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Think we've discussed this on another thread, recently.

As far as I know, 3.g3 is thought to be harmless for Black even if it gives White a minimal edge.

3.Bf4 is the traditional main line and, as far as I know, in TN's line (a), White usually plays 5.c4.  See Kramnik-Ivanchuk, Linares 1998.

Eric Prie notes that 3.Bf4 allows Black to free his game with ..Bd6 and suggests instead 3.Nbd2 for White.
  
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TN
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #5 - 09/07/09 at 10:09:31
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Schaakhamster wrote on 09/07/09 at 09:55:51:
Dean wrote on 09/06/09 at 22:07:37:
A problem with 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6?! is that white can get a very durable +=  by 3. Bf4!

Without both c5 and e5 black will suffer a bit.


I'm experimenting with 3. g3 which was recommended to me by a 2200 player. My initial experience is that white has a minimal but persistent edge. As with 3. Bf4 it takes advantage of the fact that the knight on c6 blocks the c-pawn.  


I agree with Schaakhamster and disagree with Dean.

a) 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bf4 does not offer White any edge whatsoever as shown by Wisnewski and Morozevich: 3...Bg4 4.e3 (other moves also fail to achieve anything) 4...e6 (preparing ...Bd6) 5.Nbd2 (5.Be2 Bd6 is fine for Black, as shown by Morozevich's blitz games on ICC, and the same applies for 5.Bb5 Bd6) 5...Bd6 6.Bd6 (6.Bg3 is less testing) 6...cd6 and Black has full equality with good counterplay. See Adorjan-Morozevich, Alushta 1994.

b) 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.g3 - I agree that this seems a bit better for White. Morozevich gives as his main line 3...Bf5 4.Bg2 (4.c3 is overcautious) 4...e6 5.0-0 Nb4! (my exclamation) 6.Na3 Be7 (Black has several alternatives but all of them fail to fully equalise) 7.c3 Na6 8.Qb3 Qc8 and now following Chuchelov-Godena, Mondariz 2000 with 9.Bg5!? seems to be the most promising route for White.

Personally I don't trust 3...Bg4 as advocated by Wisnewski since if White defends accurately he will be a good position to seize the initiative on the queenside and in the centre.


  

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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #4 - 09/07/09 at 09:55:51
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Dean wrote on 09/06/09 at 22:07:37:
A problem with 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6?! is that white can get a very durable +=  by 3. Bf4!

Without both c5 and e5 black will suffer a bit.


I'm experimenting with 3. g3 which was recommended to me by a 2200 player. My initial experience is that white has a minimal but persistent edge. As with 3. Bf4 it takes advantage of the fact that the knight on c6 blocks the c-pawn. 
  
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #3 - 09/06/09 at 22:07:37
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A problem with 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6?! is that white can get a very durable +=  by 3. Bf4!

Without both c5 and e5 black will suffer a bit.
  
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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #2 - 09/06/09 at 21:24:46
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Anonymous3 wrote on 09/06/09 at 19:06:24:
If you play the Albin Counter-Gambit (1 d4 d5 2 c4 e5) as Black, how should you meet 1 d4 d5 2 Nf3? I saw Nigel Davies recommends the Albin Counter-Gambit in his book Gambiteer II and also covers 2 Nf3, so what does Davies recommend against 2 Nf3?


Against 2.Nf3, consider 2...Nc6!? with the idea of meeting 3.c4 with 3...e5!?, known as the 'Black Swan' variation. Whilst it is true that 4.Ne5 should be a bit better for White, most players will play 4.de5 d4, transposing back to your Albin variations. Tibor Karolyi wrote two very good Yearbook surveys on this line a couple of years ago.
  

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Re: Albin Counter-Gambit Question
Reply #1 - 09/06/09 at 19:21:02
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Source Niggemann:

"Auf d4 empfiehlt er Albins Gegengambit 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5. Auf 1.d4 d5 2.Sf3 schlägt der Autor den Zug Sc6 nebst anschließendem e5 vor."
  
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Albin Counter-Gambit Question
09/06/09 at 19:06:24
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If you play the Albin Counter-Gambit (1 d4 d5 2 c4 e5) as Black, how should you meet 1 d4 d5 2 Nf3? I saw Nigel Davies recommends the Albin Counter-Gambit in his book Gambiteer II and also covers 2 Nf3, so what does Davies recommend against 2 Nf3?
  
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