I'm reviving this old thread partly because it was amusing, but mainly because I'm actually interested in the OP's question. (Probably more interested than he was: he doesn't seem to have logged in since before the first reply to his question was posted.) I'll try to explain why.

Against 1.d4 I usually play 1...d5. Against 2.c4 I play both the Slav and the QGD. I don't know much theory and nor do my opponents, so we are usually out of the books by about move 8. If I could pick a main-line defence that I'd like to be in at that stage it would probably be the Semi-Slav, though I don't have any clear idea of how I intend to get there.

But a large proportion of my 1.d4-playing opponents -- probably as many as half -- don't play 2.c4, or even 2.Nf3 and 3.c4. In particular, 2.Bf4 is all the rage.

Now I know 2.Bf4 is not reckoned to be White's most challenging option; I just hate facing it. I have spent a good deal of time searching for a line I like, without much success. But in the course of this exercise I noticed that 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 is less promising because of 2...c5! So I started wondering whether I could start with 1...Nf6, without having to learn one of the Indian defences (which really would be overkill).

I don't mind facing the Tromp. I don't under-estimate it, but at least it's easy to get an interesting position.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4 doesn't bother me quite so much, because 3...c5 followed by ...Nc6 and ...Qb6 seems to be a line that London players find depressing, and the main reason why 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 is now preferred to 2.Nf3 and 3.Bf4. Besides, I could try 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5, which I rather like. I know this can turn into a Benko Declined, but learning it would be a much more manageable proposition than the whole of the Benko.

That's why I'm considering 1...Nf6. After 2.c4 I would probably play 2...c6 rather than 2...e6, because I'd prefer not to play the Nimzo or to defend an Exchange QGD. So is there a snag?

After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4, my database includes about 5700 games with 2...c6. It has been played occasionally by lots of top GMs. Movsesian plays it quite a lot. I don't suppose he is as concerned about the London system as I am, but presumably he has reasons of his own; and presumably he doesn't think this move order has any major drawbacks. If 3.Bf4 is a drawback, as tracke suggested, it's a little-known one: it was played in little more than 100 of those 5700 games. White nearly always plays 3.Nc3 or 3.Nf3, and the game turns into an ordinary Slav.

So, although this move order may have no theoretical advantages, I think that for me it could be a useful practical weapon.

Reading through this thread again gave me a bunch of warm fuzzies .  I love this place 

Gewgaw, 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d5 (or 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nf6) is usually called the Marshall Defense and not considered a good move order for Black.

I´m not sure, if this thread is spoilt already, but when reading the pros and cons about different move orders, suddenly 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d5 3.cd5 g6 came to my mind. Isn´t this a good move order for Black to play the Grunfeld, where White already lost some important options?

MNb wrote on 08/22/11 at 11:46:05:


MNb, I don't understand how you don't understand why I think Eric is hyped up.

Also, I just wanted to get this post back to the top.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/26/11 at 18:38:24:

Yes, but Volcanor wants Black to play 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 and evt. 4...Bb4 here. Only after 2.g3 he recommends 2...c6 again. I'd say that it's an interesting suggestion. I'd like to know the opinion of Slav adherents.

MNb wrote on 08/25/11 at 13:35:09:

You're right. After 3.Nf3 Nc6 seems better than Bb4. But I'm sure you got my point. To answer your question, I'd recommand 1.c4 Nf6 2. g3 c6, soon followed by d5.

I think that if Black is happy by his positions after both 1.c4 Nf6 2.d4 c6 and 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e5, it's an interesting move order against the English.

But as previously mentioned, nothing comes for free. I personnally don't like it, because of 1.c4 Nf6 2.d4 c6 3.Nc3 d5 4.e3. As I like to play the dxc4 Slav, I'm outside my repertoire. But if you're happy with 4...e6 (Meran) or 4...a6, I think it's fine for Black.

If we speak about the position after 2 moves (i.e. 1.d4 Nf6 2. c4 c6), it's interesting to note that this position can be reached through 1.c4 Nf6 2.d4 c6. And this move order makes sense both theoretically and pratically if Black wants to play the Slav against the English.

Black avoids the Steiner/Panov from the Caro-Kann that he has to face after 1.c4 c6 2.e4. Of course, Black has to deal with 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3, with the idea 2...c6 3.e4 and we're back in a Steiner/Panov. But Black can play 2...e5 and argue that White has been commited to Nc3 and that 3...Bb4 will follow.

I'd be intersted to hear what GM Tony Kosten's thoughts are on reaching the Slav via 1...Nf6.