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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!? (Read 19162 times)
Bukowski
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #22 - 03/30/10 at 23:12:26
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Yes I have the games from the Big Database. 

The games I have with 6.e4 :
Harnett-Muller (1980)
Myers-Alvarez (1988)
Preston-Lins
Preston-Glayton
McEwan-MacKenzie
Thau-Braack
Lembeye-Galliot
Preston-Westra
Preston-Cumbers (Thx Paul!)
Glazyrin-Gataullin (2004)

In Kaissiber 5 on p.23, Gerard Welling mentions a game that was played way back in 1971: Staples-Hempson (I only have the moves 6.e4 Qh4 7.Kg2). Does anyone have this or any other “missing” games featuring 6.e4 ? Please post!

Hey HTH, any notable games or lines in the references you mentioned?

Regards, Paul
  
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parisestmagique
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #21 - 03/30/10 at 08:00:34
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Hi, do you know the 5 games of the big database starting after ?
1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4 Bxh3 4.Bxh3 exf4 5.0-0
Most famous and the only game not lost by White is Tartakover - Lilienthal Paris 1930.
  
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Bukowski
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6.e4 Qh4
Reply #20 - 03/29/10 at 23:27:27
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Thanks for all the responses.

Regarding 6...Qh4: it's hardly ever played. Most players fear Bc8 and go for the forcing 6...gxh2+.

I had the following in an online blitz game:
1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4 Bxh3 4.Bxh3 exf4 5.O-O fxg3 
6.e4 Qh4 7. Kg2 (7.Qf3) Qxe4+ 8.Rf3 gxh2 9.Nc3 Qh4 10.Qe2+ Be7 11.Qb5+
With some play

regards, Paul
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #19 - 02/14/10 at 17:25:19
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Thanks for the game and the story!  Smiley
Mr. Preston even played Tartakower's "strong" Bc8 move, only in a not so rosy position. In practice gambit players often face the big problem that opponents don't follow their home analysis. 
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #18 - 02/14/10 at 17:08:03
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Bukowski wrote on 09/25/09 at 21:06:53:
Hi,

I'm looking for any references to the Amar Gambit (new games, any literature references. I'm especially interested in the following line:

1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4 Bxh3 4.Bxh3 exf4 5.0-0 fxg3 6.e4 

Regards, Paul

The one and only time I faced this was ten years ago:

W. Preston v Paul Cumbers (Doncaster, 2000)
1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4 Bxh3 4.Bxh3 exf4 5.O-O fxg3 6.e4 Qh4 7.Qg4 gxh2+ 8.Kh1 Qxg4 9.Bxg4 Nf6 10.Bc8 Nbd7 11.Bxb7 Rb8 12.Bc6 dxe4 13.d4 Bd6 14.b3 O-O 15.c4 Nh5 16.Kg2 Ng3 17.Re1 Nc5 18.dxc5 Be5 19.Na3 h1=Q+ 20.Rxh1 Nxh1 21.Rb1 Ng3 22.Be3 f5 23.Nc2 Ne2 24.Bg5 h6 25.Bd5+ Kh7 26.Rh1 Kg6 27.Be3 Rbd8 28.Nb4 Nc3 29.Nc6 Nxd5 30.Nxe5+ Kf6 31.Bd4 Nf4+ 32.Kg3 Ne2+ 33.Kh4 g5+ 34.Kh3 Nxd4 35.Ng4+ fxg4+ 36.Kxg4 Kg6 37.Rb1 Rf3 38.Rh1 Rdf8 0-1

My opponent was a weak player, who for some reason likes to play in the Open section of weekend tournaments (the Minor would be more appropriate). Occasionally he finishes on a score higher than zero. I was tipped before the game that he played this stuff, so I had a few minutes to check up on some theory at the bookstall Wink. During the game, I remember feeling amused that I had doubled h-pawns with my f- and g-pawns still intact! I can only conclude that the purpose of White's opening is to try and confuse the opponent. In another round of the same tournament, Preston played something similar against a friend of mine, this time shuffling both knights around provocatively on the back ranks - again it seemed to be a psychological ploy...
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #17 - 02/14/10 at 14:19:35
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Stefan, 

This is the first I've heard of the Amar Gambit.  I thought 6.e4 was part of the definition of the Amar Gambit, with Tartakover analysing an alternative. Perhaps sacking one pawn is possible for White, but I still hold that the onus is on white, not Black to prove this is playable.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #16 - 02/14/10 at 09:27:29
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@Smyslov_Fan: Reread my post. Welling hasn't claimed that 6...Qh4 is the only refutation, but you don't care. You can insult an opening, if you want, or Tartakower (his name "Compromised Amar Gambit" for 6.e4 should deter everybody to take it serious), but to claim... 

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/13/10 at 21:45:11:
According to Fritz, there are at least five lines that "refute" the Amar Gambit.

...and then give an analysis of 6.e4? is ridiculous. 

TN wrote on 02/14/10 at 02:35:02:
The computer says that 6.hg3 h5! 7.c4 h4! is close to winning for Black, about a +1.1 advantage.

There are better openings than 1.Nh3 d5 2. g3 e5 3.f4 (Amar Gambit). But mindlessly pushing the h-pawn is hardly the solution. White plays 7.d4, e.g. 7...Nc6 8.Qd3 Be7 9.Nc3 Bf6 10.Be3, and I am not sure who is better. If you want to refute the opening, don't forget to analyze 5.d4, instead of 5.0-0, and moving the c-pawn also comes into consideration. 
« Last Edit: 02/14/10 at 11:41:29 by Stefan Buecker »  
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TN
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #15 - 02/14/10 at 07:49:54
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/14/10 at 06:36:25:


I really think the onus is on White to show that there is some concrete reason to play this rather than Black.


I propose the following possible reasons:

a) I'm going to lose anyway, so I may as well make it nice and quick
b) I have to sacrifice a pawn at all costs because that's what 'Win with the X Gambit' said
c) I don't care about my rating or tournament position
d) I have to catch a plane
e) I didn't want to play in the first place
And finally, my favourite:
f) C3PO: I'm letting the wookie win.  Grin

On a serious note, the only way to justify 1.Nh3 is to play 1...d5 2.g3 e5 3.f3, followed by 4.Nf2 and 5.Bg2. Even then, White's setup looks dodgy.
  

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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #14 - 02/14/10 at 06:36:25
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Fritz gives at least 5 lines.  Anyone with a computer can find them, but here's a synopsis:

6...gh2 7.Kh2 de4 8.Nc3 Nf6 9.Qe2   
Fritz' score: -1.61

6..de4 7.hg3 Nf6 (or 7...Bc5 8.Kg2 Nf6) 
Fritz:  -1.62

6...Qh4 (already mentioned) 
-1.61

And there are others.

I really think the onus is on White to show that there is some concrete reason to play this rather than Black.
  
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TN
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #13 - 02/14/10 at 02:35:02
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The computer says that 6.hg3 h5! 7.c4 h4! is close to winning for Black, about a +1.1 advantage. 

I am anticipating further donations, such as 1.Nf3 g5 and 1.d4 d5 2.e4.
  

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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #12 - 02/14/10 at 00:49:29
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After your strong words, would you please give a concrete analysis. Gerard Welling's article gave a selection of interesting games with 1.Nh3, 1....Nh6 and 2.Na3. One of them was Tartakower - Lilienthal, won by Tartakower in 20 moves. Tartakower played 6.hxg3, and that's what he calls Amar Gambit. If you have found out that 6.e4? is incorrect, you are a bit late. Welling said clearly that 6.e4 is refuted by 6...Qh4!.

Edit: ...with 1.Nh3, 1....Nh6 and 1.Na3.    
« Last Edit: 02/14/10 at 09:47:34 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #11 - 02/13/10 at 21:45:11
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According to Fritz, there are at least five lines that "refute" the Amar Gambit.  That is, there are at least five lines that give Black a +1 advantage. There are probably more than a dozen that retain an advantage for Black.
  
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #10 - 02/13/10 at 18:25:30
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motörhead wrote on 02/13/10 at 15:09:26:
[quote author=23140A0E16120A08610 link=1253912813/0#0 date=1253912813]..."quite entertaining", says Welling.
But he calls 6...Qh4! as in Staples - Hempson, 1971, the refutation and so 6.e4 "not advisable"....
cheese



Ok, now my credulity is strained.  There's only one move that refutes this trash... stinking pile of ... errr... gambit???
  
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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #9 - 02/13/10 at 15:09:26
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Bukowski wrote on 09/25/09 at 21:06:53:
Hi,

I'm looking for any references to the Amar Gambit (new games, any literature references. I'm especially interested in the following line:

1.Nh3 d5 
2.g3 e5 
3.f4 Bxh3 
4.Bxh3 exf4
5.0-0 fxg3 
6.e4 

Regards, Paul


Well the only source I have is Kaissiber 5/1998. There Gerard Welling deals with the "Amar-Eröffnung" (that is 1.Nh3) on ten pages. One and a half is dedicated to "Das Amargambit". He gives a "!" to 5.0-0 and deviates from your line (5...fxg3 6.e4) with 6.hxg3 and quotes the two games Tartakower - Lilienthal, Paris 1933, and Welling - Peleman, Gent 1986, which were both won by white.

But even on your line, "das kompromittierte Amargambit" (so once called by Tartakower), 6.e4 he has a game - Harnett - Muller, Guernsey 1980: 6... gxh2+ 7.Kh1 dxe4 8.d3 Nf6 9.Nc3 exd3 10.Bg5 Be7 11.Qf3 0-0 12.Rae1 Nc6 13.Qg2 Nh5 (13...Kh8) 14.Bxe7 Nxe7 15.Bg4 d2 16.Re5 Nf6 17.Rxf6 gxf6 18.Rd5 Qb8 (18...Qxd5) 19.Rh5 Kg7 20.Qxd2 Rh8 21.Qh6+ Kg8 22.Ne4 1-0 
"quite entertaining", says Welling.
But he calls 6...Qh4! as in Staples - Hempson, 1971, the refutation and so 6.e4 "not advisable".
So if you want to play that stuff, you should go for 6.hxg3, being a pawn down with a shattered King's hide but with a lead in development an the pair of bishops... Undecided

cheese
  

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Re: Amar Gambit : 1.Nh3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.f4!?
Reply #8 - 10/14/09 at 14:02:05
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Well that certainly is impressive scholarship.
  

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