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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C45: Beating the Scotch Gambit? (Read 30709 times)
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #38 - 06/23/11 at 17:16:25
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The second edition of this book has been reviewed by Carsten Hansen in May 2010 and he wasn´t too favourable about it but seemingly liked the first edition: http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen132.pdf
  
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Keano
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #37 - 06/23/11 at 08:23:26
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Amusingly I was in the bookshop the other day and saw there was a new edition of this book out - a quick glance saw that the main sections updated seemed to be the things Watson pointed out in his review!? For example the whole Giuoco Piano section is changed. Methinks they looked at Watsons "hatchet job" review if I can call it that.
  
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #36 - 09/30/09 at 08:21:37
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I know the line you´re thinking of, although Flear lost a game himself as Black in the last few years with this. To be honest the problems with the main-line Guico are in the main-line like they always have been, and for that reason Sveshnikovs e5 line is more of a threat which Devilman´s clubmates are playing against him! (Marin had to update his own book after losing in this line).
  
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TN
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #35 - 09/30/09 at 06:57:44
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I have posted my answer to this thread at http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1254285369/1#1.

I can also discuss the holes in the Open Games section of the book here in more detail, such as the 7...Ne4 8.Bb4 Nb4 9.Bf7 Kf7 10.Qb3 Ke8 line or something similar that was mentioned by Flear as leading to equality (can't remember exactly now, have to look it up).
  

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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #34 - 09/29/09 at 15:31:23
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #33 - 09/29/09 at 15:30:20
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So what book are we talking about?  I scanned back and could not see.  Something by Dzindzihashvili?

  

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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #32 - 09/29/09 at 14:12:29
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"dishonest" no. The tone of the whole Watson review makes me suspect there is some history between him and the authors, cant prove it of course but that review was completely over the top.
  
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #31 - 09/29/09 at 13:21:50
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Keano wrote on 09/29/09 at 11:57:53:
The lines are not mainstream but there is a fair amount of theory, the weakness of the book is the gaps which means you have to plug in the missing bits. Also I dont like the recomendation against the Caro-Kann (although its solid) or the Sicilian (but here its personal - a well prepared player will do very well with this Grand Prix stuff, look at Gawaine Jones). Like I said before its an interesting book that goes against the mainstream, unduly hatcheted by Watson.

Bottom line is if you dont like the book dont buy it, but dont go by the Watson review - have a look at the book yourself! From what I´ve seen here most people are going "based on what I saw in Watsons review" and have not read the book.


Well I do think Watsons criticism was for the biggest part wellfounded even if he goes overboard in his review. The authors promise things they can't deliver. So they try to cover up by ignoring the best moves for the opponent on several occasions. If you add the whole "one-stop solution for your opening woes" marketing blurb the book does get a "dishonest" feel to it. I think this is the main problem for Watson.

As an added note: Almost any opening book can be put to good use if you plug the gaps. Something I have read from several GM's is "give me a book (even if it is old) with a good explanation of the main ideas and I'll fill in the theoretical details with my database".



  
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #30 - 09/29/09 at 11:57:53
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The lines are not mainstream but there is a fair amount of theory, the weakness of the book is the gaps which means you have to plug in the missing bits. Also I dont like the recomendation against the Caro-Kann (although its solid) or the Sicilian (but here its personal - a well prepared player will do very well with this Grand Prix stuff, look at Gawaine Jones). Like I said before its an interesting book that goes against the mainstream, unduly hatcheted by Watson.

Bottom line is if you dont like the book dont buy it, but dont go by the Watson review - have a look at the book yourself! From what I´ve seen here most people are going "based on what I saw in Watsons review" and have not read the book.
  
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #29 - 09/29/09 at 11:51:52
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Keano wrote on 09/29/09 at 08:15:23:
SWJediknight wrote on 09/28/09 at 20:26:31:
Having seen the various opinions on that controversial book I get the impression that it's quite a good book for ideas at the club level, but dishonest in its evaluations and analysis and thus not a book that should be taken as gospel.  


No book should be taken as gospel , all books have errors. I think this book is most helpful for 2300+ or candidate master players who recognize the gaps and appreciate the ideas, but I hate putting a level on books because it all depends on the person. Like all books if it gets you to think and look at things critically its a good book, if not it ends up on the shelf or is just duplicating the job of a database.


I don't know. The black one I rather like. But with white I have the impression that they try to make their choices look better then they are by making suboptimal moves for black. Their choices are decent and solid but in the end I don't really believe that they offer an edge against a well prepared black player. Which would be fine (the lines are rather untheoretical) if they didn't make that claim throughout the book.

In my mind their choices are ideal for a first repertoire. But then they should have been more "honest" to pull it off.

The black one is, in my opinion, more ambitious in the choice of variations. I can't shake the feeling that the books should be intended for different target audiences.


  
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #28 - 09/29/09 at 08:15:23
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SWJediknight wrote on 09/28/09 at 20:26:31:
Having seen the various opinions on that controversial book I get the impression that it's quite a good book for ideas at the club level, but dishonest in its evaluations and analysis and thus not a book that should be taken as gospel.  


No book should be taken as gospel , all books have errors. I think this book is most helpful for 2300+ or candidate master players who recognize the gaps and appreciate the ideas, but I hate putting a level on books because it all depends on the person. Like all books if it gets you to think and look at things critically its a good book, if not it ends up on the shelf or is just duplicating the job of a database.
« Last Edit: 09/29/09 at 09:36:46 by Keano »  
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #27 - 09/29/09 at 04:14:28
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Straggler wrote on 09/28/09 at 22:51:04:
MNb wrote on 09/27/09 at 20:15:47:
If I am not mistaken the repertoire book by Davies also recommends the Italian. Emms prefers the 2K.

Davies also recommends the Two Knights. But doesn't "the Italian" mean 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4?


Davies does indeed recommends the two knights. To be more exact: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Be2 h6 9. Nf3 e4 10. Ne5 Bc5
  
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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #26 - 09/29/09 at 01:58:55
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Straggler wrote on 09/28/09 at 22:51:04:
But doesn't "the Italian" mean 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4?


Well, yes, but 3...Bc5 is the Italian proper, 3...Be7 the Hungarian and 3...Nf6 the Two-Knights.

TN wrote on 09/28/09 at 12:52:11:
The book could be recommended to a new player, say under 1600, to introduce them to an opening repertoire, but the main problem in my view is that it teacher the player bad habits in studying the opening and will leave the reader unprepared for the most common variations.

Exactly for this reason I would not recommend it to new players under 1600 either. I don't know the chapter about the Winawer, but I have seen the Caro-Kann and GPA-stuff. Based on that I can only agree with Watson.
The repertoire for Black seems to be better.
  

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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #25 - 09/29/09 at 01:50:23
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@SWJediKnight

You are right - I should have checked the 4.de5 Ne4 5.Qd5 line more closely.

@Keano

I will answer your post in the French Defence thread since it doesn't really belong here. A lot of the lines I am referring to are those in Watson's review, but there are some other (relatively smaller) holes that I have found myself.

PS: Due to commitments I won't be able to post about all of the French Defence holes in COWE until Wednesday.

@5.e5 variation

It's worth mentioning that 5...Ng4 6.Bf4 Qe7 7.Qe2 d6 is also completely equal - Dzindzichashvili is quite dishonest in claiming a slight edge in a dead even endgame there, especially since all other sources claim equality.
« Last Edit: 09/29/09 at 08:54:07 by TN »  

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Re: Beating the Scotch Gambit?
Reply #24 - 09/28/09 at 22:51:04
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MNb wrote on 09/27/09 at 20:15:47:
If I am not mistaken the repertoire book by Davies also recommends the Italian. Emms prefers the 2K.

Davies also recommends the Two Knights. But doesn't "the Italian" mean 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4?
  
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