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Normal Topic Open Spanish - Berlin move order (Read 6737 times)
rdecredico
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Re: Open Spanish - Berlin move order
Reply #6 - 09/28/09 at 14:46:25
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TN wrote on 09/28/09 at 10:47:18:
I also agree with Markovich that the 5.Re1 variation is theoretically harmless, although Black still has to be familiar with the theory as McShane-P.H. Nielsen, Hastings 2003 showed.



Theoretically harmless, but Black has no real counterplay, and few chances to inbalance the position and play for a full point as White can maintain a slight pull the whole way with a slightly better center. 

Re1 is a good practical choice at all levels below GM and because of a paucity of resources, catches out a lot of players.
  
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TN
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Re: Open Spanish - Berlin move order
Reply #5 - 09/28/09 at 10:47:18
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Lukacs and Hazai's survey in Yearbook 87 covers this line in a lot of detail, so I recommend you examine this source carefully when studying the variation.

The critical line is what was played in Ivanchuk-Carlsen, Linares 2008 (the main game of their survey): 7.Qe2 Bf5 8.Re1! (an important novelty at the time), when instead of the dubious 8...Bb4?! as in the game, Black should prefer H/L's advocated 8...Qf6!, when this unexplored position remains unclear. In my opinion White should retain a slight advantage with best play, but obviously with almost no games after 8...Qf6, this is open to debate.

I also agree with Markovich that the 5.Re1 variation is theoretically harmless, although Black still has to be familiar with the theory as McShane-P.H. Nielsen, Hastings 2003 showed.
  

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chk
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Re: Open Spanish - Berlin move order
Reply #4 - 09/28/09 at 09:43:31
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agreed.

I do play the exchange variation as White, while never really liked the Berlin exchange variation(s). Actually this was the comparison I was trying to make.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Open Spanish - Berlin move order
Reply #3 - 09/28/09 at 07:57:04
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chk wrote on 09/28/09 at 07:20:32:
Moreover (this is if you go for dxe5), the Exchange Ruy Lopez could turn out to be easier to play with your pawn at e4 rather than at e5..


After dxe5 it's more like a Berlin ending with black still having castling rights.

Btw, Soltis in his Transpo Tricks book, gives the following line from a Vescovi game: 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.d4 a6 6.Bxc6?! dxc6 7.Qe2 Bf5 8.g4? Bg6 9.h4 "Black could have refuted that with 9...Qd7! 10.Nxe5 Qxd4, as Johannes Zukertort played way back at London 1883 (!)"
« Last Edit: 09/28/09 at 09:50:27 by TalJechin »  
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chk
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Re: Open Spanish - Berlin move order
Reply #2 - 09/28/09 at 07:20:32
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Moreover (this is if you go for dxe5), the Exchange Ruy Lopez could turn out to be easier to play with your pawn at e4 rather than at e5..
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Open Spanish - Berlin move order
Reply #1 - 09/28/09 at 06:42:29
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Quote:
In what ways is black better off here rather than facing Fischer's favorite?


With the e4 pawn off the board white has no kingside majority.
  
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Eclectico
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Open Spanish - Berlin move order
09/28/09 at 06:00:34
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I'd like to hear some discussion of white's possible deviations when black attempts to reach the Open spanish using the Berlin move order.  An expert or class A player will only get an Open Spanish about 10% of the time against similar strength white players using the move order:  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 a6 6. Ba4 b5 .  In particular, I cannot find any theory for the line below which seem to be in a no-man's land between Berlin and Open territory.

C67:  Rosenthal variation - popular with exchange lopez players and Rybka!

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 a6 6. Bxc6 dxc6  


WHITE TO PLAY

Both Nxe5 and Re1 seem to give white a small initiative with more space and better pawn structure.  Black's bishops need active posts to get equality.  Black chose to allow this position because this move order avoided the normal Exchange variation.   In what ways is black better off here rather than facing Fischer's favorite?
  
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