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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Caro-Kann exchange variation (Read 44447 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #52 - 01/15/19 at 18:10:11
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Just thought I'd post a nice game from Tata Steel (where the Exchange has been played a few times so far this year), involving a teenage GM against a former world #4 player.  It varies from a line which came up earlier in the thread by Black's omission of ...Bxf3 before ...Bd6.



annotated by Herman Grooten in Dutch at
https://www.schaaksite.nl/2019/01/14/lucas/
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #51 - 10/09/17 at 16:24:40
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Keano wrote on 10/09/17 at 12:42:45:
I'll have a look at that, it was a very nice game by Ivanchuk also. Of course White is not committed to go "all in" with Rae1 either. I recall Danny King prefers the calm Rfe1 in these positions and after ...Bg6 he even goes Bf1 I think and later he has a4 playing on both sides.


Speaking of King and playing on both sides, I believe the Johnsen/Kovacevic book on the London System from twelve years ago cited a game King-Houska which went 10...0-0 11. Rae1 Bh5 12. Ne5 Nxe5 13. de Nd7 14. c4 (idea Bxh7+ and Qh3) ...maybe it was just said to be interesting.
  
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Keano
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #50 - 10/09/17 at 12:42:45
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kylemeister wrote on 10/09/17 at 04:29:37:
If after 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. ed cd 4. Bd3 Nc6 5. c3 Nf6 6. Bf4 Bg4 7. Qb3 Qc8 8. Nd2 e6 9. Ngf3 Be7 10. O-O Bh5 11. Rae1 Bg6 12. Bxg6 hg (I recall that whatever GM annotated the game for the Chessbase site thought this position to be equal) Kramnik had played the normal-looking 13. Ne5, then 13...Nxe5 14. Bxe5 0-0 would transpose to stuff from earlier in this thread.  So there is the question of whether Ivanchuk with his delayed castling prepared/intended to play otherwise.


I'll have a look at that, it was a very nice game by Ivanchuk also. Of course White is not committed to go "all in" with Rae1 either. I recall Danny King prefers the calm Rfe1 in these positions and after ...Bg6 he even goes Bf1 I think and later he has a4 playing on both sides.

Other than that I was looking at some ...g6 lines combined with ...Nh6 to go a little bit away from the main-lines. Those lines seem to score OK, as does the early ..Qc7 line but for some reason that is just not appealing to me.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #49 - 10/09/17 at 04:29:37
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HgMan wrote on 10/09/17 at 01:08:45:
Alternatively, I note that Ivanchuk responded with 5...Nf6, which receives less coverage in recent books (I've not seen Lakdawala's recent Caro book). It permits 6.Bf4, but maybe that's not the end of the world...


If after 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. ed cd 4. Bd3 Nc6 5. c3 Nf6 6. Bf4 Bg4 7. Qb3 Qc8 8. Nd2 e6 9. Ngf3 Be7 10. O-O Bh5 11. Rae1 Bg6 12. Bxg6 hg (I recall that whatever GM annotated the game for the Chessbase site thought this position to be equal) Kramnik had played the normal-looking 13. Ne5, then 13...Nxe5 14. Bxe5 0-0 would transpose to stuff from earlier in this thread.  So there is the question of whether Ivanchuk with his delayed castling prepared/intended to play otherwise.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #48 - 10/09/17 at 01:56:36
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Keano wrote on 10/08/17 at 22:28:45:
Funny enough I am looking to play the Caro as Black on occasion now and have found it tricky picking up a response for Black here that I really like.


You can take solace in the fact that you're playing the Black side of a Caro Exchange and not French Exchange, at least.
  
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HgMan
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #47 - 10/09/17 at 01:08:45
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Keano wrote on 10/08/17 at 22:28:45:
I see Kramnik has picked up up the exchange line as his way to go against the Caro when he is playing 1.e4.

Funny enough I am looking to play the Caro as Black on occasion now and have found it tricky picking up a response for Black here that I really like.


I guess it comes as some consolation that Kramnik isn't enjoying too much success with the Exchange. After the mainlines, Advance, and Panov, I suspect that the Exchange comes as something of an afterthought for many Caro-Kann players. I note that both Schandorff and Houska offer the following recommendation in their repertoires:

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Qc7 6.Ne2 Bg4 Here, they are both a little too dismissive of 7.0-0 which can be quite dangerous and scores rather well for White. 7...e6 8.Qe1 Bxe2 9.Qxe2 Nf6 10.Nd2 Bd6 11.g3 looks very good for White. Or, at least, the stats back up the suggestion that White fairs well here. 11...0-0 12.f4 Maybe 12...Ne7 is worth a look here?

Alternatively, I note that Ivanchuk responded with 5...Nf6, which receives less coverage in recent books (I've not seen Lakdawala's recent Caro book). It permits 6.Bf4, but maybe that's not the end of the world...
  

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Keano
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #46 - 10/08/17 at 22:28:45
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I see Kramnik has picked up up the exchange line as his way to go against the Caro when he is playing 1.e4.

Funny enough I am looking to play the Caro as Black on occasion now and have found it tricky picking up a response for Black here that I really like.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #45 - 04/14/17 at 02:04:52
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kylemeister wrote on 04/14/17 at 00:02:11:
Timman-Hübner saw 12...Bd6, which was considered an "! =" kind of move.

Makes me wonder what Timman would have played against Stellwagen in 2005.

Keano wrote on 04/13/17 at 22:13:34:
That line I recently learned, can also come from the in vogue London system.

Good reason not to play ...cxd4 too early.
  

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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #44 - 04/14/17 at 00:02:11
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Re Degraeve-Bauer in #42 (maybe I missed it when it was posted), I'll throw in a couple of historical recollections.  12...Bg6 reminds me of Browne-Larsen 1972 (one of a couple of nice games won by Browne against Larsen that year).  A decade later, Timman-Hübner saw 12...Bd6, which was considered an "! =" kind of move.
  
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Keano
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #43 - 04/13/17 at 22:13:34
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That line I recently learned, can also come from the in vogue London system.
  
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Keano
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #42 - 04/28/15 at 08:22:10
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A few years later, and this line still looks like a decent option.

French GM Degraeve seems to have a good handle on it in particular

Degraeve,Jean Marc (2563) - Bauer,Christian (2633) [B13]
FRA-ch 88th Nancy (8), 19.08.2013

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Nf6 6.Bf4 Bg4 7.Qb3 Qc8 8.Nd2 e6 9.Ngf3 Bh5 10.Ne5 Be7 11.0-0 0-0 12.Qc2 Bg6 13.Nxg6 hxg6 14.h3 Qd8 15.Nf3 Nh5 16.Bh2 g5 17.Qd2 g6 18.Rae1 Rc8 19.Kh1 Kg7 20.g4 Nf4 21.Bxf4 gxf4 22.Qxf4 Bd6 23.Qe3 Qf6 24.Ne5 Qh4 25.f4 Nxe5 26.fxe5 Be7 27.Rf3 Bg5 28.Qe2 Bf4 29.g5 Bxg5 30.Rg1 Rh8 31.Rg4 Qxg4 32.Rxf7+ Kxf7 33.Qxg4 Kg7 34.Kg2 Bh4 35.Bxg6 Rcg8 36.Kh2 Bd8 37.Qxe6 Rh6 38.Qf7+ Kh8 39.Bf5 Bg5 40.e6 Rg7 41.Qf8+ Rg8 42.e7 1-0

« Last Edit: 04/28/15 at 20:51:33 by Keano »  
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Keano
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #41 - 07/27/10 at 14:50:41
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I found some excellent notes to this game by Shipov online:

http://www.danamackenzie.com/blog/?p=887

Seems like the early ...Bf5 before ...Bg7 is a nice refinement, although the Ehlvest game Shipov mentioned is well worth looking at. Played through it and it was very smooth.
  
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Keano
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #40 - 07/27/10 at 09:33:20
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Keano wrote on 11/10/09 at 15:59:30:
Going back to this topic, I noticed there was an interesting move-order in the exchange line which was used by Ivanchuk and several other strong players recently, the more I look at this supposedly harmless variation the more I think it is a very good practical weapon:

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Nf6 (after 5...Qc7!? White can also play the same plan)
6.h3!?
This more or less stymies all possibilities for Black to activate the Queens Bishop which leaves him 2 ideas: play for an early ...e5 and IQP position, which looks like an edge for White, or (what usually happens) Black transposes back into the ...g6 system, where the early h3 is not a bad move for White. Its an interesting side-line.


Ponomariov used this move-order the other day to secure a draw and win the tournament: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6549

Admittedly he didnt get much or anything out of the opening, but its clear he regards it as a safe system and had put in a bit of work on it from his comments.
  
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Keano
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #39 - 11/12/09 at 08:42:31
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tracke wrote on 11/12/09 at 08:25:50:
I´ve scored 11,5/13

Thats some score with the Black pieces!

I´d be interested to know if any of your games proceeded like this:
1. e4   c6
2. d4   d5
3. exd5 cxd5
4. Bd3  Nc6
5. c3   Nf6
6. h3   e5
7. dxe5 Nxe5
8. Nf3!?    - that is the move I like for White in the IQP line - Leko played 8...Nxd3 against Ivancuk but I´d quite fancy that for White. More critical looks something like 8...Bd6 9. Nxe5 Bxe5 10.Nd2 intending Nf3 - I agree theoretically it should be fine for Black, although not everybody likes going into these IQP positions for stylistic reasons. Amongst strong players 6...g6 seems much more popular.
« Last Edit: 11/12/09 at 10:52:27 by Keano »  
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tracke
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Re: Caro-Kann exchange variation
Reply #38 - 11/12/09 at 08:25:50
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Hi Keano!

Drawing conclusions from my own extensive black experience with h3 lines in CKE ( both 5...Nf6/Qc7, I´ve scored 11,5/13 on ~2200, white players mostly slightly weaker: 1970-2260) I should say that in these (pseudo) IQP lines the additional h2-h3 is imo a less useful move -  it´s more a weakness! The pawn h3 is someplace where Bc8/d7 wants to be sacrificed, in addition it´s difficult for white to establish a defending MP on g3. Or to pull back a Ne4 with f2-f3.

Bf5 lines are probably weaker (read: less strong) for black, but more complicated and because of this better to outplay weaker opponents. After Bxf5 gxf5 black has to take care for g2-g4. Therefore black shouldn´t castle short, at least not before white has done so and can think about ...o-o-o and ...h5/Rhg8. Or just stay with his King on e8/d7.

In summary I do not see any theoretical problems for black and only good practical chances for him. That´s especially true in original C-K move orders - in London move orders (with ...c5xd4 e3xd4 which I also employ) black of course has to play more precisely. Because at the moment of pawn exchange both sides have already played some system moves and often white´s (Bf4,h3) are a little bit more useful and important for CKE structure than black´s (Nf6,a6). But even then Black can get equal chances if he knows what he´s doing.

tracke  Smiley
  
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