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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C11: Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 (Read 5416 times)
MNb
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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #10 - 01/05/10 at 02:11:30
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What bothers about me about 11.Nb3 is that White prepares a kingside attack by playing a piece away from that section of the board. For similar reasons I strongly dislike the same move in the Open Sicilian.
The way I see attacking chess it is not enough just to keep pieces on the board. At least as important is where they are placed. And I simply don't see what a knight on b3 does for the attack.
To answer the question of SBC: if a long lasting nagging endgame advantage for White is the best Black can expect after 3...Nf6 that is a very good reason to play 3.Nc3. It easily can be shown that 3.Nc3 is not only meant to initiate an attack against the opposing king. Eg, if you only want to attack 4.Bg5 is more logical than 4.e5 (dxe4 5.f3!?).
  

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OstapBender
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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #9 - 01/05/10 at 00:59:32
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I also like Nijboer's move 11.Nb3 (I think it had already been played several times in high level games before Nijboer took it up).
  

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Spongebobiscool
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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #8 - 01/05/10 at 00:15:04
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11.h4 is not the best move in the world, although Kasparov played it with success.

11.Qf2 gives white a slight edge in the endgame, but many pieces are exchanged and it's not so clear whether or not white can do anything serious with his advantage.

I think 11.Nb3 is the best move, white keeps the pieces on the board and is going to start a kingside attack with h4/Rh3/Rg3 Smiley

If case you rather play the endgame, 11.Qf2 is just as good. But I'm curious, if you prefer the endgame above the sharp attacking line, why play 3.Nc3 anyway?! Smiley
  
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dom
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About 11.Qf2
Reply #7 - 12/02/09 at 21:54:51
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sanek9385 wrote on 10/12/09 at 15:34:17:
[Event "Turin ol (Men) 37th"]
[Site "Turin"]
[Date "2006.05.29"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Zhigalko, Andrey"]
[Black "Luther, Thomas"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C11"]
[WhiteElo "2511"]
[BlackElo "2593"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 cxd4 8. Nxd4 Bc5 9. Qd2 O-O 10. O-O-O a6 11. Qf2 Bxd4 12. Bxd4 b5 13. Be3 b4 14. Na4 a5 15.h4 Ba6 16. h5 Bxf1 17. Rhxf1 f6 18. exf6 Nxf6 19. Qf3 Ne4 20. h6 g6 21. Nc5 Nxc5 22. Bxc5 Rf7 23. Qe2 Qd7 24. Rde1 Re8 25. Rf3 d4 26. Qc4 Rf5 27. Rd3 Qd5 28. Qxd5 Rxd5 29. Bb6 Rb8 30. Bc7 Rc8 31. Bb6 Rb8 32. Bc7 Rc8 33. Bb6 1/2-1/2

This game most precisely, in my opinion, shows a way to nobody's for the black


13...Bb7!? is Iljushin's move  A.Filippov-A.Iljushin, Moscow 2006 (Langrock on www.chesscafe.com)

or 11...Qe7 Shomoev-Chebotarev,Tomsk 2006 (chesspublishing  septembre 2006) Radjabov-Ivanchuk,Morelia/linares 2008 (chesspublishing update mai 2008) Jakovenko-Morozeevich,Moscou 2007 (chesspublishing update decembre 2007)

are good ideas for Black.

I am happy Ivanchuk not resigned too much early in chess life ... because one chess genius still here in chess world to play the French  Cool

[Event "Metz op 26th"]
[Site "Metz"]
[Date "2008.04.19"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Schweitzer,Viktoriya"]
[Black "Sumets,Andrey"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "C11"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5
9.Qd2 0-0 10.0-0-0 a6 11.Qf2 Bxd4 12.Bxd4 b5 13.Be3 Bb7 14.Bd3 Qe7 15.Kb1 Rac8 (transposes to A.Khalifman-A.Iljushin, Sochi 2005 where White played here 16.Rhe1) 16.Ne2 Na5
17.Bd4 Nc4 18.Rhf1 Nc5 19.f5 exf5 20.Qxf5 Ne4 21.Bxc4 Rxc4 22.Ng3 Bc8 23.Qf4 Nxg3 24.Qxg3 Be6  25.b3 Rc6 26.Kb2 a5 27.c3 Rfc8 28.Rd2 b4 29.Rf3 a4 30.Rdd3 Qb7 31.Qe1 Qa6 32.Qd2 axb3
33.axb3 Qa3+ 34.Kb1 bxc3 0-1

a game not proof of anything except Black can survive (or win)  too, only players skills decide, and not one lethal weapon for White/Black

  

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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #6 - 12/02/09 at 18:52:40
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To say that the game is drawn is to go too far. Personally i dont think that white should play h4 and 11 h4 is basically abandoned on GM level.  Its better for white to play in center and on queenside. After all, white has a space advantage and a decent square on d4.
Maybe you can claim the position is equal, but its not drawn. I think white has the usual opening advatage in that line as long as he doesnt play h4.
  
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sanek9385
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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #5 - 11/10/09 at 15:50:50
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1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 cxd4 8. Nxd4 Bc5 9. Qd2 O-O 10. O-O-O a6 11. Qf2 Bxd4 12. Bxd4 b5 13. Be3 b4 14. Na4 a5 15.h4 Ba6 16. h5 Bxf1 17.h6 g6 18.Rh:f1

What plan is better to select for the black? 18...Qc7?
  
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sanek9385
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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #4 - 10/12/09 at 15:34:17
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[Event "Turin ol (Men) 37th"]
[Site "Turin"]
[Date "2006.05.29"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Zhigalko, Andrey"]
[Black "Luther, Thomas"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C11"]
[WhiteElo "2511"]
[BlackElo "2593"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 cxd4 8. Nxd4 Bc5 9. Qd2 O-O 10. O-O-O a6 11. Qf2 Bxd4 12. Bxd4 b5 13. Be3 b4 14. Na4 a5 15.h4 Ba6 16. h5 Bxf1 17. Rhxf1 f6 18. exf6 Nxf6 19. Qf3 Ne4 20. h6 g6 21. Nc5 Nxc5 22. Bxc5 Rf7 23. Qe2 Qd7 24. Rde1 Re8 25. Rf3 d4 26. Qc4 Rf5 27. Rd3 Qd5 28. Qxd5 Rxd5 29. Bb6 Rb8 30. Bc7 Rc8 31. Bb6 Rb8 32. Bc7 Rc8 33. Bb6 1/2-1/2

This game most precisely, in my opinion, shows a way to nobody's for the black
  
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dom
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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #3 - 10/12/09 at 06:09:56
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@sanek9385: i am always interested when one player can assess one game is drawn when only opening moves have been played....maybe you can give the line or plan, Black must use to draw vs 11.Qf2 Anand's move ?  ..  and yes, 11.h4 is start of another plan like 11.Nb3 (Nijboer)

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sanek9385
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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #2 - 10/10/09 at 08:13:05
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11.Qf2 - leads a drawn game...
And at a course 11.h4 as it is better to play for the black? There too draw?
  
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ghenghisclown
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Re: French Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nf
Reply #1 - 10/10/09 at 07:59:12
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I believe Qf2 is the move.
  

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sanek9385
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C11: Classical 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5
10/10/09 at 05:14:21
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1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3
Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Qd2 0–0 10.0–0–0 a6

[b]How it is better to play?
11.h4
11.Ce2
11.Qf2
...
There are experts on this variant?[/b]
« Last Edit: 07/23/11 at 16:22:58 by dom »  
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