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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Christoph's Gambit!? (Read 94174 times)
Stigma
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #182 - 06/27/11 at 20:10:10
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@Gambit: I realize that the naming is already common, and it will probably stick. But it's still technically wrong.

All the various Benonis have one thing in common: The main lines involve some kind of  ...c5 / d4-d5 structure. 1.d4 c5 2.c3 is not a Benoni, it's an attempt to reach a Colle, London, etc. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3 is not a Benoni, it's an attempt to reach lines of the English. And like those lines, your line specifically avoids the ...c5 / d4-d5 structure.

Btw. even if I had granted that 1.d4 c5 is already a Benoni, I could point to the Anti-Sicilians, who arise after the Sicilian 1...c5 is already on the board.
  

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Gambit
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #181 - 06/27/11 at 19:05:55
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Stigma, I thought 1 d4 c5 was the Old Benoni Defense. The Russian chessbooks I have call 1 d4 c5 the Benoni Defense. Now, Zilbermints Anti-Benoni does sound intriguing. Unfortunately for your viewpoint, the name Zilbermints Benoni has been around since 1995. It is in Eric Schiller's huge tome, Gambit Chess Openings, and on the Internet.
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #180 - 06/27/11 at 19:03:17
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Glenn, I'm not sure it is so much an improvement, but his conclusion after 12.Rh3 that black is simply a pawn up seems a little too simplistic to me. White has the bishop pair and the Nh5 cannot easily get back into play - I feel white has enough to hold the balance by pressuring on the queenside. If not then I think there is some scope for improvement in the line with 10.Ne2 Bf5 11.Bh6 Bxh6 12.Qxh6 Ng4 13.Qf4, though I cannot say I have any specific improvements here - just a gut feeling that white has something.

Markovich, I don't claim the games to be overwhelming evidence at all... but for a meagre 2000 FIDE player to be getting so many crushing wins against higher-rated opponents, in all manner of lines, suggests things are not simple. I am one of those who doubts the gambit's theoretical worth, but I think that it is worth exploring further to find out. I certainly wont blindly sing its praises after some bullet games.

I have to confess I am not convinced by this "Long Bogo" line... seems like I'm playing a h-pawn hack where I do not have my pawn on f3 where I would like it. I accept the open f-file gives alternate attacking options, but I think if black avoids castling the compensation cant be enough. I'd rather try to rescue the Studier before I resort to that!
  

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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #179 - 06/27/11 at 18:03:38
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SWJediknight wrote on 06/27/11 at 17:48:38:
I think White definitely has enough compensation in that particular line, a conclusion supported by the book


...but doubted by Glenn Flear in the Yearbook.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #178 - 06/27/11 at 17:48:38
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The main gap in the book is probably the "Long Bogo" lines of the 5...g6 variation where Black does not automatically castle kingside (6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0).  I think White definitely has enough compensation in that particular line, a conclusion supported by the book, but there is a lot of unexplored territory where Black chooses to leave the king in the centre a la Pirc Defence, and while White clearly has compensation there too, it's debatable whether it is enough.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #177 - 06/27/11 at 14:36:29
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Gambit wrote on 06/27/11 at 01:51:00:
The lines I play and invent are not exactly standard chess. For example, the Zilbermints Benoni, 1 d4 c5 2 Nf3 cxd4 3 b4! or the Zilbermints Grob Gambit, 1 g4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3!

The same unorthodox approach applies to the lines invented by me in the BDG.


Again, the name should be Zilbermints Anti-Benoni. Benoni structures only arise when White meets Black's ...c5 with d4-d5. Your line is something else entirely.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #176 - 06/27/11 at 12:31:12
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CraigEvans wrote on 06/26/11 at 15:54:37:
Afternoon all,

Have been away playing quite a bit of correspondence chess recently, concentrating almost solely on the BDG as white. So far my statistics are +16, =3, -1 with two games ongoing which I think are winning.

Albeit some of these results are against weaker players, but I would suggest they are significant nonetheless. My record against (chess.com) >2000 players is +6, =3, -1, and that one loss came when I tried the main 8.Be3 in the Teichmann (whereas I have scored almost 100% with the Seidel-Hall 8.g4!)

This practice is suggesting that the BDG is fully viable even at these longer time controls as long as white is clued up (of course, database and book access makes this much easier!) - a conclusion which even I am surprised at.



Your results would much better support your conclusion had they been acheived on www,iccf-webchess.com or lss.chess-server.net.  Competition on those sites is quite fierce, and opening ideas usually recieve a severe theoretical test.  Your may be right for all I know, but I don't think that results achieved on informal sites like chess.com or even net-chess.com are very convincing evidence.
  

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Gambit
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #175 - 06/27/11 at 01:51:00
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The lines I play and invent are not exactly standard chess. For example, the Zilbermints Benoni, 1 d4 c5 2 Nf3 cxd4 3 b4! or the Zilbermints Grob Gambit, 1 g4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3!

The same unorthodox approach applies to the lines invented by me in the BDG.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #174 - 06/26/11 at 22:16:35
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Gambit wrote on 06/26/11 at 21:59:33:
Glenn Snow wrote on 06/26/11 at 18:35:08:
Nice wein's Craig.  I think 5...c6 is a very good me as well but as I mentioned on one of these BDG threads I can't find complete compensation after 5...g6.  Certainly a lot of pitfalls are presented for Black but I think he has the upper hand with best play.  You played the old main-line with Bc4 in the game above, did you have an improvement ready over Christoph's analysis?


I have played against 5...g6 with 6 Bc4 Bg7 7 00 00 8 h3! the Studier-Zilbermints Attack on both the Internet Chess Club and tournament games. Also, I tried out the older Studier Attack after 7 00 00 8 Qe1, with mostly successful practice. Even 6 Bf4 Bg7 7 Qd2 00 8 000 has been tried by me on ICC.

With regard to the sneaky 5...c6, I have playrf 6 a3!? here with some degree of success. I also tried transposing into the Alchemy Variation after 6 Bc4 Bf5 7 00 e6 8 Ng5, with good results.


I've played all of the above myself in blitz games with success (excepting a3 which I haven't looked at) and I'm sure OTB and apparently correspondence as well they can be successful.  However, it bothers me to play something that I know if they've looked at that lines I've looked at that I'm going to be struggling for a draw with the White pieces no less.
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #173 - 06/26/11 at 21:59:33
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Glenn Snow wrote on 06/26/11 at 18:35:08:
Nice wein's Craig.  I think 5...c6 is a very good me as well but as I mentioned on one of these BDG threads I can't find complete compensation after 5...g6.  Certainly a lot of pitfalls are presented for Black but I think he has the upper hand with best play.  You played the old main-line with Bc4 in the game above, did you have an improvement ready over Christoph's analysis?


I have played against 5...g6 with 6 Bc4 Bg7 7 00 00 8 h3! the Studier-Zilbermints Attack on both the Internet Chess Club and tournament games. Also, I tried out the older Studier Attack after 7 00 00 8 Qe1, with mostly successful practice. Even 6 Bf4 Bg7 7 Qd2 00 8 000 has been tried by me on ICC.

With regard to the sneaky 5...c6, I have playrf 6 a3!? here with some degree of success. I also tried transposing into the Alchemy Variation after 6 Bc4 Bf5 7 00 e6 8 Ng5, with good results.
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #172 - 06/26/11 at 18:35:08
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Nice wein's Craig.  I think 5...c6 is a very good me as well but as I mentioned on one of these BDG threads I can't find complete compensation after 5...g6.  Certainly a lot of pitfalls are presented for Black but I think he has the upper hand with best play.  You played the old main-line with Bc4 in the game above, did you have an improvement ready over Christoph's analysis?
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #171 - 06/26/11 at 15:54:37
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Afternoon all,

Have been away playing quite a bit of correspondence chess recently, concentrating almost solely on the BDG as white. So far my statistics are +16, =3, -1 with two games ongoing which I think are winning.

Albeit some of these results are against weaker players, but I would suggest they are significant nonetheless. My record against (chess.com) >2000 players is +6, =3, -1, and that one loss came when I tried the main 8.Be3 in the Teichmann (whereas I have scored almost 100% with the Seidel-Hall 8.g4!)

This practice is suggesting that the BDG is fully viable even at these longer time controls as long as white is clued up (of course, database and book access makes this much easier!) - a conclusion which even I am surprised at.

A couple of the nicer games:

[White "CEV"]
[Black ""Tonsijbrands""]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "2032"]
[BlackElo "2258"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. f3 d5 3. e4 dxe4 4. Nc3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bg4 6. h3 Bd7 [A rare move, but the second time I have faced it] 7. Bd3 e6 8. O-O Be7 9. Be3 Nc6 10. a3 O-O 11. Qe1 Nd5 12. Nxd5 exd5 13. Bf4 Rc8 14. Qg3 Be6 15. Bh6 Bf6 16. Ne5 Nxe5 17. dxe5 Bxe5 18. Qxe5 gxh6 19. Rf6 Qd6 20. Qh5 Qg3 21. Rxh6 Rfe8 22. Rf1 Qe3+ 23. Kh1 Kf8 24. Rxh7 Ke7 25. Bg6 Kd6 26. Bxf7 Bxf7 27. Qxf7 Qe4 28. Qd7+ Kc5 29. b4+ 1-0

[White "CEV"]
[Black "Levimitch"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[BlackElo "1951"]

1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bg4 6. h3 Bxf3 7. Qxf3 c6 8. g4 e6 9. g5 Nd5 10. Bd3 Be7 11. h4 Nb4 12. Be4 Qxd4 13. Be3 Qe5 14. O-O-O O-O 15. Bd4 Qa5 16. Bxh7+ Kxh7 17. Qh5+ Kg8 18. Bxg7 Kxg7 19. Qh6+ Kg8 20. g6 1-0

[White "CEV"]
[Black ""callisto64""]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[BlackElo "2163"]

1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 g6 6. Bc4 Bg7 7. O-O O-O 8. Qe1 Bf5 9. Qh4 Bxc2 10. Bh6 Bxh6 11. Qxh6 Bf5 12. h3 b5 13. Nxb5 Nc6 14. g4 Na5 15. Be2 a6 16. Nc3 Bxg4 17. hxg4 Nxg4 18. Qf4 Nf6 19. b4 Nc6 20. d5 Nxd5 21. Nxd5 Qxd5 22. Rfd1 Qh5 23. Kf2 e5 24. Qe4 Nd4 25. Nxd4 Qh2+ 26. Qg2 Qh4+ 27. Qg3 Qxg3+ 28. Kxg3 exd4 29. Rxd4 Rfe8 30. Bf3 Rab8 31. Rc1 Re7 32. a4 h5 33. a5
Rb5 34. Rc6 Kg7 35. Rxa6 c5 36. bxc5 Rxc5 37. Rd3 Ree5 38. Ra3 Kh6 39. Ra7 Kg5 40. a6 Ra5 41. Rxa5 Rxa5 42. Be2 f5 43. Rf7 h4+ 44. Kf3 Ra3+ 45. Kf2 Kf4 46. a7 g5 47. Bb5 g4 48. Bc6 g3+ 49. Ke2 Ra2+ 50. Kd3 h3 51. a8=Q Rxa8 52. Bxa8 g2 53. Rg7 Ke5 54. Ke3 1-0

The best thing seems to be the wide range of possible defences - people trawling through databses seem to continually get lost in the variations and choose inferior ones. Still, I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that the BDG offers chances to fight for an advantage - though, of course, there are lines which probably equalise for black. Strangely only one person has tried 5...c6 against me so far (and fell for a Rxf5 trick) - this has to be the acid test of the line.
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

"If others have seen further than me, it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders."
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Gambit
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #170 - 06/21/11 at 17:10:29
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Yesterday I won the Gerry D'Alessio Memorial Tournament in Ridgewood, NJ, with 2.5/3 points. It was a three-round event, with one game every Monday. As I could not play the first game, I took a half-point bye in the first round. The second game I easily won. But it was the last game which gave me undisputed first place. Here is the game score.

By the way, is 6 Bd3 a common move against the Gunderam? Somehow, I don't think so...

Zilbermintz - Sergio Flores (1950)
Ridgewood, New Jersey
20 June 2011

1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Bf5

The Zeller Defense

4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 a6 6 a4 e6 7 Bd3 Bxd3 8 Qxd3 h6 9 00 Nf6 10 Be3 Be7

This can transpose from the Gunderam Defense via 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 Bf5 6 Bd3 Bxd3 7 Qxd3 a6 8 a4 e6 9 00 h6 10 Be3 Be7

11 Rad1 00 12 h3 Nbd7 13 Qd2 Nh7 14 d5 exd5?

Better was 14...e5

15 Qxd5 Bd6 16 Qxb7 Re8 17 Bd4 Ng5 18 Nxg5 Qxg5 19 Ne4 Qe7 20 Rfe1 Qf8

Here the computer gives 21 Bxg7! winning a pawn. Truthfully, I briefly looked at that move, but could not see the follow-up. Anyway, I decided on the text move, that being...

21 Nxd6 Qxd6 22 Be3 Qg3?  23 Bf2! Rxe1+ 24 Bxe1! Qe3+ 25 Bf2! Qe8 26 Rxd7! Qxd7 27 Qxa8 Kh7 28 Qxa6 Qd1+ 29 Kh2 Qxc2 30 Bd4 c5 31 Qc6 c4 32 Bc3 Qb3 33 Qb5 Qd1 34 a5 Qf1 35 Qe5 f6 36 Qe4+ Kg8 37 a6, Black resigns.

Since the other leaders ended their games drawn, I ended up with first place.
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #169 - 06/08/11 at 20:07:05
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Chris, why did not you try 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4, the Gunderam Attack, or 5 Bg5, the Polish Attack? I have played both with success.
  
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IM Christoph Wisnewski
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #168 - 06/08/11 at 05:04:39
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Actually I wanted to play 23 c3 and only after 23...a5 I wanted to play 24 b4 - But then I made the second move before the first one Shocked
  

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