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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Christoph's Gambit!? (Read 94803 times)
IM Christoph Wisnewski
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #212 - 07/23/11 at 20:34:32
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I haven't check this too thoroughly (since I don't have a board at my proposal from where I am typing this), but I don't think it is such a good idea if White plays 8 g4!

Since Black cannot take on c2 (the bishop is just lost after 9 Rc1), there is

a.) 8...Bd7, and analogous to 7...Bd7 White can play 9 Bxd6 followed by 10 Qxb7 when 10...Bc6 is met by 11 Bb5.

b.) 8...Bc8/Be6 9 Be5, and compared to 7...Bc8 8 0-0-0 g6 9 Be5 Black cannot play Bh6, which means he has to play either 9...f6 or 9...Rg8, weakening his position in both cases.
  

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SWJediknight
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #211 - 07/23/11 at 10:32:03
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I've checked the book, interestingly it doesn't mention 7...g6 despite mentioning the analogous possibility 6...Nxc3 7.bxc3 g6.  I think it's a pretty good alternative for Black, and as in most of the other lines White should probably resist the b7-pawn- perhaps 8.0-0-0 Bg7 9.g4 Bd7 10.Bg2 Nc6 11.Nge2 instead.  Christoph will probably have better ideas than me on how to continue.
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #210 - 07/22/11 at 19:10:17
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A thought just occurred to me while looking at Cristoph's June update on the Diemer Gambit, probably it is just stupid, but after 6...Nd6 7 Bf4 why can't Black simply play 7...g6 to defend the f5-bishop?
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #209 - 07/22/11 at 10:31:55
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I had a game in the Seidel-Hall Attack yesterday at the local chess club: 1.e4 d5 2.d4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Bg4 6.h3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 c6 8.g4 Qxd4 9.Be3 Qe5 10.0-0-0 e6 11.g5 Nd5? (11...Nfd7 leaves White with roughly two pawns' worth of compensation) 12.Nxd5 cxd5, but then erred with 13.Bd3? (13.Bf4! Qe4 14.Qxe4 dxe4 15.Bxb8! is winning for White as 15...Rxb8 16.Bb5+ Ke7 17.Rd7+ is an absolute slaughter- unfortunately I didn't find this OTB, as it happens I checked Scheerer's book and the line is indeed mentioned there).  I can't remember the moves of the rest of the game, but Black got the better of it into the middlegame then blundered late on.  In any case, that line is a lot of fun.

I'm not sure that Black has any way to get an advantage against the BDG at present with 5...g6 6.Bf4 and 5...c6 6.Bc4 Bf5 7.Bg5 both offering roughly equal play, though of course there are many ways to reach an equal position.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #208 - 07/22/11 at 09:01:33
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TN wrote on 07/22/11 at 05:55:56:
Gambit wrote on 07/22/11 at 03:43:25:
Methinks I will post a large collection of my BDG games here, beginning with 1991. Should I create a new topic for it, "Lev's BDG Games, 1991 - 2011?
There are some that have never seen print; others are widely known.

Let me know what you think.


I won't read it, but it's best in a separate thread.


Useful I'm sure but probably a pgn file is best.
  
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TN
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #207 - 07/22/11 at 05:55:56
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Gambit wrote on 07/22/11 at 03:43:25:
Methinks I will post a large collection of my BDG games here, beginning with 1991. Should I create a new topic for it, "Lev's BDG Games, 1991 - 2011?
There are some that have never seen print; others are widely known.

Let me know what you think.


I won't read it, but it's best in a separate thread.
  

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Gambit
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #206 - 07/22/11 at 03:43:25
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Methinks I will post a large collection of my BDG games here, beginning with 1991. Should I create a new topic for it, "Lev's BDG Games, 1991 - 2011?
There are some that have never seen print; others are widely known.

Let me know what you think.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #205 - 07/18/11 at 10:15:31
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I remember ArkHeiN originally advocated 7.Qe2 e6 8.Bg5 (or 7.Bg5 e6 8.Qe2) 8...Be7 9.0-0-0!, with sufficient compensation, but the critical flaw in this was 8...Bb4!, when White has to castle kingside and doesn't quite get enough. 

Thus, if Black plays 7.Bg5 Nbd7 then one idea was to continue with 8.Qe2 and 9.0-0-0 since Black cannot get in 8...Bb4.  8...e6 9.0-0-0 Be7 simply transposes to the aforementioned line while 9...Bb4 10.d5! works quite well for White (e.g. 10...Bxc3 11.dxe6 fxe6 12.Bxe6 Bxe6 13.Qxe6+ Qe7 14.Qxe7+ Kxe7 15.bxc3 and White's activity compensates for the doubled pawns).

Re. 5...g6 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 c6 8.0-0-0, I considered 8...Bf5 and gave 9.Bh6 Bxh6 10.Qxh6 Nbd7 11.Bc4 e6 12.h3 Qe7 13.g4 Be4 14.Rhf1 0-0-0, with a similar sort of situation to Gutman's recommendation against the O'Kelly (I think White has enough long-term pressure for the pawn here).  Another option, that I didn't consider at the time, is 9.h3 when Black probably has nothing better than to transpose to the line we've just been considering via 9...0-0, e.g. 9...Nbd7 10.g4 Be4 11.Nxe4 Bxe4 12.Bg2, and I'm not sure that Black's king would be any safer on the queenside here in view of possible Re3-b3 rook lifts for example.

Someone else in an earlier thread suggested 6...c6 7.Qd2 Nbd7 8.Bc4 Nb6 9.Bb3 a5 10.a4 Nd5, which is the main line that put some doubts in my mind, but I think White may be OK with 11.0-0 there, while I suggested "8.0-0-0, e.g. 8...Nb6 9.Bd3 Be6 10.Rhe1 with ideas of Bxf6 and Ne5, and if 10...Bg7 then 11.Bh6" as a possible alternative way of reaching a dynamically equal situation.  It does seem to me that if Black refrains from ...0-0 then White gets play in the manner of Gutman's recommendation against 4/5...c6.
« Last Edit: 07/18/11 at 14:26:25 by SWJediknight »  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #204 - 07/17/11 at 22:27:51
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Yes indeed, after 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 g6 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0 Bf5 9.h3 Ne4 10.Nxe4 Bxe4 11.Ng5 Bd5 your 12.h4! seems like a good solution!  I had looked at this but completely underestimated and misanalyzed it.  The position seems dynamically equal. 

Speaking of the O'kelly-Variation, after 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 c6 (After 4...exf3 5.Nxf3 c6 6.Bd3 I think I have an improvement for Black that I'll post sometime.) 5.Bc4 exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 7.Bg5!, I had wondered what would happen if Black played 7...Nbd7 (instead of 7...e6) since now he can answer 8.Nh4 with 8...Bg4.  If my analysis is correct, however, White is still Ok if he follows the basic Gutman plan of 9.Qd3 and plays the thematic h3, g4, Nxg6, 0-0-0 moves in most variations.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #203 - 07/17/11 at 19:43:23
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Thank you, Craig, for your information regarding the variation ("12.Rh3 is in the line (5...g6) 6.Bc4 Bg7 7.O-O O-O 8.Qe1 Nc6 9.Qh4 Bg4! 10.Be3 Bxf3 11.Rxf3 e5.")

Glenn Snow wrote on 07/16/11 at 21:25:31:
Glenn Snow wrote on 07/11/11 at 06:36:30:
I don't have the aforementioned yearbook unfortunately but I do have Christoph's book.

After 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 g6 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2, the idea of delaying castling has been discussed.  There are of course a few possibilities but one that others thought might be strong was the Pirc like 7...c6!?.  I think White is at least OK here.  8.0-0-0 b5 (8...Qa5 9.Kb1 this position is a good illustration of how difficult it is for Black to avoid castling for long which I think is his best move here.  9...b5?? loses to 10.Nxb5; 9...Be6 10.Ng5; 9...h6?! to prepare ...Be6 allows 10.Bc4 of course.) 9.Kb1 b4 10.Na4 Nbd7 (Once again I think Black should just castle with an interesting game.  10...Qa5 11.Nc5; 10...Nd5 11.Bh6) 11.Qxb4 (11.Bc4!? =) Nd5 12.Qd2 Nxf4 13.Qxf4 looks about equal to me.  Delaying ...Bg7 could be tried too but I don't think that helps any.  Often if Black is acting quickly on the queen-side White can castle king-side with decent compensation.

1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 g6 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0(!) 8.0-0-0 the move that bothered me was 8...Bf5.  After 9.h3 I thought Black had a strong move in 9...Ne4 but now I'm doubtful.  10.Nxe4 Bxe4 11.Ng5 Bd5 12.c4 I was under the impression that 12...h6 (12...Bc6 13.d5 Bd7 14.g4 unclear) was strong.  But after 13.Nf3 Bxf3 (13...g5 14.Be3) 14.gxf3 h5 (14...Nc6 15.d5 appears to offer White good compensation) My computer tells me Black is still better here but I'm curious as to what others think.  I'd also like to know if anyone has a better idea for White against 9...Ne4 or if perhaps White should prefer something besides 9.h3.


Looking at this some more lately and am starting to agree more with the computer.  After 14...h5, Houdini gives a few moves but one which isn't in it's top three is 15.Qe3!?.  I've been looking at this with the idea of following up with Rh2 in most cases and White has some chances although I doubt full compensation. 

Would 12. h4 (instead of 12.c4; highlighted above) be playable? A possible variation: 12...h6 13.Nh3 h5 14.Be5 Nd7 15.Bxg7 Kxg7 16.Bd3 c6 (16...e5, about =) 17. Rhe1 e5 (not 17...Bxa2?! 18.b3 followed by 19.Qg5; 17...b5 18.Qg5) 18.dxe5 Qxh4 19.Nf4 Nc5 20.Qe3 Qe7 21.e6 or similar ideas; White has full compensation.

In Kaissiber #8 (1998), p. 48, I criticized 6.Bc4?, instead advocating (p. 51) 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0. Here I didn't consider 8...Bf5. Still, I like White's position. After the renaissance of Albin's CG with some fine books on the topic, these positions appear sufficiently promising to me. It is a lasting, asymmetrical structure, to achieve pawn breaks costs Black a lot of time, and h2-h4 follows soon enough.

If a specific treatment of the g6 Bogol-Variation seemed in fact dangerous for White, I'd gladly ask Gutman again to find a solution, as in the O'Kelly-Variation c6. It was a very weird experience: he found in an hour what I hadn't seen in two weeks. But for the moment White seems fine here, right?
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #202 - 07/17/11 at 17:28:02
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Gambit wrote on 07/17/11 at 17:18:06:
Really, Glenn? How many opponents are going to find these moves in over-the-board play, without a computer to help them?


Sometimes it's worthwhile to find the truth in the position.  However, I don't want to get into a discussion about the practical benefits of gambit play.  Such a discussion could be quite interesting though if placed in the "General Chess" section here.
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #201 - 07/17/11 at 17:18:06
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Really, Glenn? How many opponents are going to find these moves in over-the-board play, without a computer to help them?
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #200 - 07/17/11 at 00:53:59
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Another idea after, 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 g6 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0 Bf6 9.h3 Ne4 10.Nxe4 Bxe4 is:

11.Qe3!?, the computer likes 11...Qd5 but 12.Be2 Nd7 13.Ng5 looks interesting although it still seems like White is coming up a little short.
  
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #199 - 07/16/11 at 21:25:31
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Glenn Snow wrote on 07/11/11 at 06:36:30:
I don't have the aforementioned yearbook unfortunately but I do have Christoph's book.

After 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 g6 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2, the idea of delaying castling has been discussed.  There are of course a few possibilities but one that others thought might be strong was the Pirc like 7...c6!?.  I think White is at least OK here.  8.0-0-0 b5 (8...Qa5 9.Kb1 this position is a good illustration of how difficult it is for Black to avoid castling for long which I think is his best move here.  9...b5?? loses to 10.Nxb5; 9...Be6 10.Ng5; 9...h6?! to prepare ...Be6 allows 10.Bc4 of course.) 9.Kb1 b4 10.Na4 Nbd7 (Once again I think Black should just castle with an interesting game.  10...Qa5 11.Nc5; 10...Nd5 11.Bh6) 11.Qxb4 (11.Bc4!? =) Nd5 12.Qd2 Nxf4 13.Qxf4 looks about equal to me.  Delaying ...Bg7 could be tried too but I don't think that helps any.  Often if Black is acting quickly on the queen-side White can castle king-side with decent compensation.

1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 g6 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0(!) 8.0-0-0 the move that bothered me was 8...Bf5.  After 9.h3 I thought Black had a strong move in 9...Ne4 but now I'm doubtful.  10.Nxe4 Bxe4 11.Ng5 Bd5 12.c4 I was under the impression that 12...h6 (12...Bc6 13.d5 Bd7 14.g4 unclear) was strong.  But after 13.Nf3 Bxf3 (13...g5 14.Be3) 14.gxf3 h5 (14...Nc6 15.d5 appears to offer White good compensation) My computer tells me Black is still better here but I'm curious as to what others think.  I'd also like to know if anyone has a better idea for White against 9...Ne4 or if perhaps White should prefer something besides 9.h3.


Looking at this some more lately and am starting to agree more with the computer.  After 14...h5, Houdini gives a few moves but one which isn't in it's top three is 15.Qe3!?.  I've been looking at this with the idea of following up with Rh2 in most cases and White has some chances although I doubt full compensation.
  
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Gambit
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Re: Christoph's Gambit!?
Reply #198 - 07/16/11 at 20:10:06
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Can you send me the game scores? So far you have 1 win and 1 loss, unless there are other games I am unaware of.

Also, in postal chess, the opponent has more time to calculate and perhaps even use a computer. I mentioned this more than once.

I am curious about your "numerous opponents" that you mention. So far, I have seen only two of your games with the Zilbermints Gambit. While your efforts are to be saluted, two games are hardly "numerous". Perhaps there are other games (maybe a half-dozen) that I do not know about? That certainly would qualify as numerous.

Good luck with the Zilbermints Gambit!
  
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