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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C02: SOS Murey's Advance Variation (Read 11943 times)
dom
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #16 - 11/05/09 at 06:49:51
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I have not read SOS Murey analysis, but I have only recorded this:

Attack of d4 pawn is best with the direct Qb6 or Qa5!? ((Dom) to try, idea is attack of d4 with a pin of c3 pawn)


1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.g3 Qb6 6.Ne2 f6 Okhotnik-Madan,2006

A) 7.exf6 Nxf6 8.Bg2 cxd4 9.cxd4 Bd6 9.oo oo 10.Nbc3 Bd7 =+ Neretljak-Brynell,Rodeby 1998 (Watson)

B) 7.Nf4?! g6 8.exf6 cxd4

C) 7.f4 Fe7 8.Bh3 fxe5 9.fxe5 Bd7 10.oo ooo 11.Be3 h5 12.Rf7 g5 13.Rg7 g4 14.Bg2 Nh6 
  
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MNb
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #15 - 11/03/09 at 02:07:36
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I am sure it already is - it's just a bit pricey.
  
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MNb
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #14 - 11/03/09 at 02:04:47
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I am sure it already is if you can afford it.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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ghenghisclown
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #13 - 11/02/09 at 20:03:33
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Let me know when that becomes commercially avaliable...
  
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #12 - 11/02/09 at 17:40:32
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ghenghisclown wrote on 10/29/09 at 19:23:02:
Did someone run these positions through Rybka and find a forced win/better position for Black?? Otherwise, I don't understand the point of concluding anything from the first 5 or 6 opening moves. 

Has anyone plugged in 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Qb6 5.g3 Bd7 6.Ne2 Bb5 7.Na3 for instance?


Hey, it'd be much better to run the position through Carlsen, not Rybka! Lol!
  
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ghenghisclown
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #11 - 10/29/09 at 21:16:09
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I don't think things are quite that simple, even though Ba6 is interesting.

Without using a program, I can see one possibility:

7...Ba6 8.Nc2 Nc6 9.Bh3 cxd4 10.cxd4 Bxe2 11.Qxe2 seems possible because Nxd4 is a mistake, maybe 11...a6 is better. Anyway, it might not suffice for a White advantage, but it's probably not =/+ .
  
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #10 - 10/29/09 at 20:40:40
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Just look at the position: After e.g. 7. ... Ba6 white has problems to defend d4 adequately while keeping developing.
  
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ghenghisclown
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #9 - 10/29/09 at 19:23:02
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Did someone run these positions through Rybka and find a forced win/better position for Black?? Otherwise, I don't understand the point of concluding anything from the first 5 or 6 opening moves. 

Has anyone plugged in 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Qb6 5.g3 Bd7 6.Ne2 Bb5 7.Na3 for instance?
  
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #8 - 10/29/09 at 16:50:10
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They don't really consider 4. ... Nc6 5.g3 f6 (which is an interesting way to play for black), Bosch just states that white should play 5.g3 instead of 5.Ne2? because of 5. ... f6 6.f4 fe5: 7.fe5: Qh4+ which means I guess he would recommend 5.g3 f6 6.f4.

A variation Bosch gives is 5. ... Qb6 6.Ne2 f6 which is similar, he recommends 7.ef6: nevertheless black has a good position (at least I think so).
  
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #7 - 10/29/09 at 12:35:56
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I would play (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.g3!?) 5...f6 and like my position after 6.exf6 Qxf6 or 6.f4 Qa5. 

Is 5...f6 mentioned in the SOS article? 

And if so, what do they recommend for White?
  
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #6 - 10/29/09 at 07:53:06
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MNb wrote on 10/28/09 at 01:25:41:


4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 6.Bd3 Nh6 7.0-0 cxd4 8.cxd4 Nf5 9.Bxf5 exf5 10.Nc3 Be6 and according to Moskalenko this position is fully playable for Black.
The same after 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Nh6 6.Bd3 cxd4 7.cxd4 Nf5 8.Bxf5 exf5 9.Nc3 Be6 "and White has nothing in this structure".

The main difference I can see with 5.g3 is that here the knight goes to e2. The advantage is that the other knight can go to f3 instead. White's play is very slow though, even slower than the Tarrasch 3.Nd2 Nf6 so my first impression is that Black can get reasonable play with normal moves.



That may be true, but in my impression white's position is much easier to play. If nothing big happens, he is clearly better positionally (imagine a Nf4 against a Be6  Wink) The only obvious way to prevent that is playing f4, but as Bosch shows this leads to insufficient compensation.

In my view the main question about the playablity is if something can be found against the 4. ...Qb6 5. ... Bd7 (or the other way round) moveorder.
  
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #5 - 10/28/09 at 02:46:53
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MNb wrote on 10/28/09 at 01:25:41:
Stigma wrote on 10/27/09 at 16:38:51:
I haven't looked at the SOS lines in detail yet, but it certainly leads to different play from the main lines.

Really?


Yes really, IF Black normally avoids the Bxf5 exf5 structure (I don't usually reach it when I play against the Advance). Against black players who specialize in those structures White doesn't gain much from the 5.g3 move order.
  
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #4 - 10/28/09 at 01:25:41
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Stigma wrote on 10/27/09 at 16:38:51:
I haven't looked at the SOS lines in detail yet, but it certainly leads to different play from the main lines.

Really?

PatzerNoster wrote on 10/27/09 at 15:59:54:
In SOS 11 there is an article about a special kind of advance variation that Murey played a couple of times: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.g3!? with the idea to answer the common plan Ng8-e7(h6)-f5 with Ne2, Bh3 and Bf5: when white has the better pawnstructure and a nice postion (at least I think so).


4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 6.Bd3 Nh6 7.0-0 cxd4 8.cxd4 Nf5 9.Bxf5 exf5 10.Nc3 Be6 and according to Moskalenko this position is fully playable for Black.
The same after 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Nh6 6.Bd3 cxd4 7.cxd4 Nf5 8.Bxf5 exf5 9.Nc3 Be6 "and White has nothing in this structure".

The main difference I can see with 5.g3 is that here the knight goes to e2. The advantage is that the other knight can go to f3 instead. White's play is very slow though, even slower than the Tarrasch 3.Nd2 Nf6 so my first impression is that Black can get reasonable play with normal moves.
Of course the conclusion is not that 5.g3 is implayble.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #3 - 10/27/09 at 17:14:53
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PatzerNoster wrote on 10/27/09 at 17:11:28:
I'm afraid 5.Be3 won't work against 4. ... Qb6 ...  Tongue

True enough Smiley The point then would be whether 4...Bd7 5.Be3 is better for White than 4...Nc6 5.Be3. Anyway my impression is that the Kupreichik variation isn't too scary for Black in any move order these days.

Btw. this Qb6/Bd7 move order still doesn't solve the "Murey problem" for fans of 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Nge7 or 5...Nh6. But precisely those players are probably comfortable with the doubled f-pawn structure after Bxf5 exf5 (whether that bishop came from d3 or h3). Moskalenko for example likes these positions for Black.
« Last Edit: 10/27/09 at 21:11:35 by Stigma »  
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Re: SOS Murey's Advance Variation
Reply #2 - 10/27/09 at 17:11:28
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I'm afraid 5.Be3 won't work against 4. ... Qb6 ...  Tongue
  
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