Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov (Read 35322 times)
BabySnake
Full Member
***
Offline


Opening repertoire construction
underway

Posts: 174
Joined: 10/21/10
Gender: Male
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #45 - 02/14/11 at 11:54:32
Post Tools
That's already mentioned in the bibliography so it must be a different article?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #44 - 02/14/11 at 11:51:57
Post Tools
Wasn't it in SOS 2 under the title 'The Fianchetto Spanish'?
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BabySnake
Full Member
***
Offline


Opening repertoire construction
underway

Posts: 174
Joined: 10/21/10
Gender: Male
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #43 - 02/14/11 at 11:47:20
Post Tools
Been looking at the RLR and in particular Smyslov Fianchetto Variation
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6
Was looking for some other sources and on the "Kenilworthian" blog there is a post by Michael Goeller (I think he posts on this board?) http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2009/03/repertoire-renovations.... that discusses related lines and has a bibliography, I have here reproduced the bibliography for this line:

Smyslov Variation of the Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6)

•Offbeat Spanish by Glenn Flear
•"The Solid but Tricky Fianchetto Spanish" by Glenn Flear in SOS #2.
•"Radulski's Ruy Lopez" in SOS #3
•Opening for White According to Anand, Volume 1, by Alexander Khalifman
•Beating the Ruy Lopez with the Fianchetto Variation by Andrew Soltis

Now my questions is this: I have been unable to find the mentioned article "Radulski's Ruy Lopez". It certainly isn't in SOS #3. Does anybody know where it's from?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SteelyDanIII
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 86
Joined: 05/14/10
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #42 - 12/05/10 at 00:12:19
Post Tools
I just noticed an amusing game in this book:

[Event "TCh-BIH"]
[Site "Neum BIH"]
[Date "2008.06.11"]
[EventDate "2008.06.04"]
[Round "8"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "Kovacevic, A"]
[Black "Brkic, A"]
[ECO "C63"]
[WhiteElo "2616"]
[BlackElo "2521"]
[PlyCount "0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 Nf6 6. Nxf6+ Qxf6 7. Qe2 Be7 8. Bxc6 dxc6 9. Nxe5 Bf5 10. d4 O-O-O 11. Be3 Bd6 12. O-O-O Bxe5 13. dxe5 Qxe5 14. c3 1/2-1/2

Strange game and even stranger that Sokolov doesn't notice 14.-Qe4 and curtains.

A rare mistake in a book with excellent analysis overall (as far as I can tell.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SteelyDanIII
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 86
Joined: 05/14/10
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #41 - 12/03/10 at 22:57:32
Post Tools
At least 7.-Nd4 looks like a very playable alternative to the standard 7.-d6. 4.-Nc6 looks interesting as well as 6.-d6 in the 4.-fxe4 line so black seems to have quite a few options against 4.d3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10573
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #40 - 12/03/10 at 16:27:19
Post Tools
Brrr, castling Queenside is asking for b2-b4.
11.Bc4 d6 12.h3 Qe7 looks reasonable indeed.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SteelyDanIII
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 86
Joined: 05/14/10
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #39 - 12/03/10 at 10:18:59
Post Tools
MarkG, that is the line Andrew Greet gives in Play the Ruy Lopez. 8.c3 Nxf3 9.Qxf3 Be7 10.Nd2 c6 11.Ba4 d5 12.d4 which ends in a rather equal position in his line. Another option, maybe more challenging, is 12.Bb3 when interesting complications arise after 12.-Ne8 13.g4 g6.

MNb, yes 11.Bc4 might be better but black can go for the standard Qe7 and d6, and depending on circumstances Bg4 or Bd7 and long castling, or Be6 neutralising the bishop. I don't think black is in great trouble here.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10573
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #38 - 12/03/10 at 09:24:57
Post Tools
You are not overlooking anything. 8.c3 Nxf3+ 9.Qxf3 can be found in my old books and also in the databases.
I only presented this game because a) not everybody has collected ICCF-games and b) because I thought it remarkable that the JS-Gambit was played in corr chess game and produced a win despite modern software.
I also play for ICCF and my rating is considerably lower than Shabaev's.

SteelyDanIII wrote on 12/02/10 at 22:59:20:
7.-Nd4 8.Nxd4 Bxd4 9.c3 Bb6 9.a4 a5 looks quite solid for black imo, i.e. 10.Nd2 0-0 11.Nc4 Ba7!? Perhaps white has a very tiny edge with accurate play.

Not after 12.Nc4 as Ba7 13.Nxe5 leads to nothing and the Knight will have to retreat.
11.Bc4 iso 11.Nd2 looks more challenging to me. How is Black going to finish development?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MarkG
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 98
Joined: 01/30/08
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #37 - 12/03/10 at 01:46:22
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 12/02/10 at 09:54:00:
I think 4...Nf6 more precise and after 5.0-0 not fxe4 6.dxe4 transposing, but 5...Bc5 6.exf5 0-0 7.Be3 Nd4.

A game from Silicon Era:

Shabaev,V (2170) - Koc,Z [C63]
WS/M/175 ICCF, 13.10.2008

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.d3 Nf6 5.0-0 Bc5 6.exf5 0-0 7.Be3 Nd4 8.Ba4 d5 9.Nbd2 Ng4 10.Bxd4 exd4 11.h3 Nh6 12.g4 Nxf5 13.gxf5 Bxf5 14.Kg2 Bd6 15.Rh1 Qf6 16.Qe2 c6 17.Rae1 Qg6+ 18.Kf1 Qh6 19.Kg2 Rf6 20.h4 Bg4 21.Rh3 Qh5 0-1


8.Ba4 wouldn't be my first choice here though I understand the desire to keep this piece. I don't have an engine available right now so I may be overlooking something horrible, but if I got this over the board, I think I would play 8.c3 with the idea that Nxb5 runs into 9.Bxc5 d6 10.Qb3+ so it looks like black has to exchange on f3 when white preserves his light squared bishop anyway.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SteelyDanIII
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 86
Joined: 05/14/10
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #36 - 12/02/10 at 22:59:20
Post Tools
7.-Nd4 8.Nxd4 Bxd4 9.c3 [something like 9.Nd2 might lead to play similar to Svidler-Radjabov 2008, where white's queen was on d3 instead of e2.] 9.-Bb6 9.a4 a5 looks quite solid for black imo, i.e. 10.Nd2 0-0 11.Nc4 Ba7!? Perhaps white has a very tiny edge with accurate play.

Sokolov shows some interesting ideas in 6.-d6 which look fully playable as well.

4.-Nd4 is not covered. 4.-Nf6 neither which is kind of strange in such a detailed book and the line you mention with 7.Be3 Nd4 I did not see, but by transposition from another chapter you can find the position after 7.Nc3 Nd4 where Sokolov seems pretty optimistic about black's compensation for the pawn. 4.-Nf6 looks like a decent alternative to 4.-fxe4, though the top guns seem to favour the latter. I've been doing a little research and at least there seems to be lots of room for investigation. I'm rather curious to see what Brunello says about these variations in his book.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10573
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #35 - 12/02/10 at 09:54:00
Post Tools
7...Nd4 8.Nxd4 Bxd4 9.c3 Bb6 10.a4 looks good for White.
After 6...d6 Black must be worse with that passive King's Bishop.
Another transposition begins with 4...Nd4. Is it mentioned by Sokolov? I think 4...Nf6 more precise and after 5.0-0 not fxe4 6.dxe4 transposing, but 5...Bc5 6.exf5 0-0 7.Be3 Nd4.

A game from Silicon Era:

Shabaev,V (2170) - Koc,Z [C63]
WS/M/175 ICCF, 13.10.2008

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.d3 Nf6 5.0-0 Bc5 6.exf5 0-0 7.Be3 Nd4 8.Ba4 d5 9.Nbd2 Ng4 10.Bxd4 exd4 11.h3 Nh6 12.g4 Nxf5 13.gxf5 Bxf5 14.Kg2 Bd6 15.Rh1 Qf6 16.Qe2 c6 17.Rae1 Qg6+ 18.Kf1 Qh6 19.Kg2 Rf6 20.h4 Bg4 21.Rh3 Qh5 0-1
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SteelyDanIII
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 86
Joined: 05/14/10
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #34 - 12/02/10 at 01:44:34
Post Tools
I've been going through the chapters on the Janisch gambit in this book. Quite impressive analysis but the coverage on 4.d3 is a bit wet compared to other chapters. 4.-Nf6 isn't even mentioned, though the main line after 5.0-0 Bc5 6.exf5 0-0 7.Nc3 can be found by transposition in the 4.Nc3 Nf6 chapter, but with earlier deviations missing.

I was also curious about a variation I studied a while back from the white side: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.d3 fxe4 5.dxe4 Nf6 6.0-0 Bc5 7.Qe2 d6 8.Qc4 Qe7 which has been reached by some super-GMs, Sokolov doesn't mention the move 9.b4 which looks strong. The following moves look forced: 9.-Be6 10.Bxc6 bxc6 11.Qa6 Bb6 12.a4 and then it seems to me that black has to go in for 12.-Nxe4 13.a5 Bxf2 14.Rxf2 Nxf2 15.Qxc6 Kf7 16.Kxf2 and white looks better. It's a difficult position to assess though, maybe I'm wrong. 12.-0-0 13.a5 Qf7 14.axb6 Bc4 15.Qa3 Bxf1 16.b7! looks worse.

If this holds up I think black might do better to deviate earlier with maybe 7.-Nd4!? (which Sokolov mentions but doesn't analyse) or 6.-d6.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Rimfaxe
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 16
Joined: 08/18/06
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #33 - 03/22/10 at 19:38:41
Post Tools
Thank you for providing the link!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #32 - 03/20/10 at 12:45:40
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 03/18/10 at 15:11:46:
Rimfaxe wrote on 03/18/10 at 14:27:35:
If you want to learn the classical defence your could start with this article.
http://correspondencechess.com/campbell/hard/h990517.htm

It is quite old but very good, and a good place to start learning the classical defence. And it is free!

I don't think any books published for many years have so good a coverage of the Classical Spanish as these articles, and after all I don't think theory have changed much during the last decade in this opening anyway.


I'm flattered by that, but anyone should be very careful, because I have since discovered that the method of play I recommended after 5.Nxe5 is not sound in all variations.  I explained why some time ago in a thread here, but it's too much trouble to unearth it.

Also since that writeup is old, there is scant treatment of White's popular Qd3 in the more positional line.  Contrary to your assertion, theory has moved forward.  You could take my work as an intro, but I would recommend you look at the updates here and also get Sokolov's Spanish book.


http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1149281149
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Daniel
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 169
Joined: 05/29/06
Gender: Male
Re: The Ruy Lopez Revisited - Sokolov
Reply #31 - 03/18/10 at 17:25:01
Post Tools
The c3, d4 Bg5, Qd3 line threw me off the Classical.  I would much rather play a standard closed Spanish than those positions for Black.

I think the soundest systems in Sokolov's book are Smyslov's 3...g6 and the Schliemann and would recommend Smyslov's line over the Schliemann due to the latter leading to several slightly worse but holdable endings for black and in general being a giant theoretical black hole.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo