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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1.d4 c5? (Read 34750 times)
Gambit
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #11 - 11/30/09 at 02:20:34
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I usually meet the Benoni, 1 d4 c5, with the Zilbermints Variation. This can occur in one of two ways:

1 d4 c5 2 b4! or 1 d4 c5 2 Nf3 cxd4 3 b4!

I prefer the second option, as it prevents Black from playing 2...cxb4.

  
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TN
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #10 - 11/26/09 at 05:01:47
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kylemeister wrote on 11/25/09 at 17:33:52:
nyoke wrote on 11/25/09 at 10:46:29:
4. e4 is the killer move against the clarendon court alright.

But we're deviating : 1.d4, c5 normally leads to the openings Stefan Bücker wrote a book about (Hawk, Vulture, and Woozle in english iirc)


It seems you may be conflating two different things.  1. d4 c5 2. d5 f5 3. e4 has indeed been given as leading to a clear advantage for White; offhand I have the impression that 1. d4 c5 2. d5 d6 3. c4 f5 4. e4 isn't as good.

I don't think it can be said that 1. d4 c5 "normally" leads to the Woozle and such.


Overall, I agree. After 4.e4 Black can play 4...fe4 5.f3 (5.Nc3 Nf6 makes less sense now that g4 is not possible) 5...Nf6 6.Nc3 Nbd7 (Black can probably get away with 6...ef3, but without a board in front of me I'll recommend a safer option) 7.fe4 Bg7 8.Nf3 0-0 and after ...Ng4-e5, there is no reason why Black should be worse. (If 9.h3 Nh5 exploiting the weakness of the dark squares in White's camp).

I'm very surprised that in SOS 4, Ehlvest doesn't consider ECO's advocated 5.Nge2 - I think +/- is a slight exaggeration since ...Qb6 in ECO's line looks dubious, but White's position is much more comfortable and Black is under serious pressure.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #9 - 11/25/09 at 17:33:52
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nyoke wrote on 11/25/09 at 10:46:29:
4. e4 is the killer move against the clarendon court alright.

But we're deviating : 1.d4, c5 normally leads to the openings Stefan Bücker wrote a book about (Hawk, Vulture, and Woozle in english iirc)


It seems you may be conflating two different things.  1. d4 c5 2. d5 f5 3. e4 has indeed been given as leading to a clear advantage for White; offhand I have the impression that 1. d4 c5 2. d5 d6 3. c4 f5 4. e4 isn't as good.

I don't think it can be said that 1. d4 c5 "normally" leads to the Woozle and such.
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #8 - 11/25/09 at 10:46:29
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4. e4 is the killer move against the clarendon court alright.

But we're deviating : 1.d4, c5 normally leads to the openings Stefan Bücker wrote a book about (Hawk, Vulture, and Woozle in english iirc)
  
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Markovich
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #7 - 11/24/09 at 18:40:48
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jitb wrote on 11/24/09 at 11:53:07:
I know someone, who plays with black: 1.d4 c5 2. d5 d6 3. c4 f5 !?

Is this good? And how do I play against it?

Thanks Grin


I would pllay 4.e4 in a flash.
  

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TN
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #6 - 11/24/09 at 12:04:21
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jitb wrote on 11/24/09 at 11:53:07:
I know someone, who plays with black: 1.d4 c5 2. d5 d6 3. c4 f5 !?

Is this good? And how do I play against it?

Thanks Grin


This is similar to the dubious 'Clarendon Court Defence' with 1.d4 c5 2.d5 f5?!.

I can't remember the exact refutation, but it goes along the lines of (in the quoted line) 4.g3 Nf6 5.Bg2 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Nh3 0-0 8.Nf4 Na6 9.0-0 Nc7 and now I recall White plays either a timely Rb1 to prepare b4 or Qc2 to prepare e4. Unfortunately I can't remember which plan, but it can be found in SOS 3.

In the 2...f5 move order, 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 is also possible although 4...e6 with the idea of 5.de6 d5! isn't too bad for Black.
  

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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #5 - 11/24/09 at 11:53:07
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I know someone, who plays with black: 1.d4 c5 2. d5 d6 3. c4 f5 !?

Is this good? And how do I play against it?

Thanks Grin
  
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kylemeister
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #4 - 11/23/09 at 22:42:03
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Dean wrote on 11/23/09 at 22:17:55:
TN wrote on 11/23/09 at 20:16:32:
This move is a bit better than its reputation, but White should be able to keep a slight advantage after 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 (Benoni Wall) 3.Nc3 d6 4.e4 followed by Bb5 or f4 (depending on what Black plays), or 1.d4 c5 2.d5 g6 3.e4 d6 4.Nc3 (Schmid Benoni) Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg7 6.Bb5. It's not a bad surprise weapon, since because of its rarity most players don't have a well-prepared response to 1...c5.



I have had some problems to get something after:
1.d4 c5 2. d5 e5 3. Nc3 d6 4. e4 Be7!? 5. Nf3 Bg4 6. Be2 Bxf3 7. Bxf3 Bg5

How do you counter this plan?


Well, ECO and NCO think that 5. Bb5+ or 5. f4 should lead to an edge.
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #3 - 11/23/09 at 22:17:55
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TN wrote on 11/23/09 at 20:16:32:
Sandman wrote on 11/23/09 at 13:15:55:
What is wrong with 1.d4 c5? It seems to be rarely played and I was curious if it is refuted or why it is considered bad. Is it worthwhile to play at the club level? Also, what is the name of this opening?

Thanks


This move is a bit better than its reputation, but White should be able to keep a slight advantage after 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 (Benoni Wall) 3.Nc3 d6 4.e4 followed by Bb5 or f4 (depending on what Black plays), or 1.d4 c5 2.d5 g6 3.e4 d6 4.Nc3 (Schmid Benoni) Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg7 6.Bb5. It's not a bad surprise weapon, since because of its rarity most players don't have a well-prepared response to 1...c5.



I have had some problems to get something after:
1.d4 c5 2. d5 e5 3. Nc3 d6 4. e4 Be7!? 5. Nf3 Bg4 6. Be2 Bxf3 7. Bxf3 Bg5

How do you counter this plan?
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #2 - 11/23/09 at 20:16:32
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Sandman wrote on 11/23/09 at 13:15:55:
What is wrong with 1.d4 c5? It seems to be rarely played and I was curious if it is refuted or why it is considered bad. Is it worthwhile to play at the club level? Also, what is the name of this opening?

Thanks


This move is a bit better than its reputation, but White should be able to keep a slight advantage after 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 (Benoni Wall) 3.Nc3 d6 4.e4 followed by Bb5 or f4 (depending on what Black plays), or 1.d4 c5 2.d5 g6 3.e4 d6 4.Nc3 (Schmid Benoni) Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg7 6.Bb5. It's not a bad surprise weapon, since because of its rarity most players don't have a well-prepared response to 1...c5.
  

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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #1 - 11/23/09 at 16:38:29
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It is the Benoni, of which there are various subtypes.  It is by no means bad or refuted, though White should probably be able to get a slight advantage.  In recent times the more common form is 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5.
  
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1.d4 c5?
11/23/09 at 13:15:55
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What is wrong with 1.d4 c5? It seems to be rarely played and I was curious if it is refuted or why it is considered bad. Is it worthwhile to play at the club level? Also, what is the name of this opening?

Thanks
  

“All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy.
That's how far the world is from where I am.
Just one bad day.”
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