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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1.d4 c5? (Read 30954 times)
FizzySoda
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #26 - 03/06/19 at 14:27:53
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I take that since palliser omitted 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 move order from the book, that his recommendation is follow the 1.d4 c5 move order and if white plays c4 then you are Czech Benoni.

  
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Straggler
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #25 - 09/08/16 at 13:26:30
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Bonsai wrote on 09/08/16 at 12:44:45:
I certainly do not see why playing 1.d4 c5 2.Bf4 or 2.Bg5, and white need to commit to either 2.e3 or 2.c3 to avoid 2.d5. In comparison, after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3, I am not even sure whether you can easily get back into a c5+e5 structure - e.g. after 2...c5 3.d5, I guess you'd have to play d6 to prepare e5?!

If your point is that White has other ways of avoiding 2.d5, that is indeed true. As I pointed out, however, these alternatives are relatively rare; so it seems unlikely that Palliser was thinking of them when he said that after alternatives to 2.d5 Black has "generally" gained by playing ...c5 before ...Nf6.

Palliser doesn't suggest trying to force ...e5 after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5. In fact he doesn't cover 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 at all. Not in that book, anyway.
« Last Edit: 09/08/16 at 22:16:05 by Straggler »  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #24 - 09/08/16 at 12:44:45
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I certainly do not see why playing 1.d4 c5 2.Bf4 or 2.Bg5, and white need to commit to either 2.e3 or 2.c3 to avoid 2.d5. In comparison, after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3, I am not even sure whether you can easily get back into a c5+e5 structure - e.g. after 2...c5 3.d5, I guess you'd have to play d6 to prepare e5?!
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #23 - 09/07/16 at 21:31:31
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I hope it's OK to revive this thread for a question.

In How to play against 1.d4 IM Palliser recommends the Czech Benoni (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e5). He explains that he considered providing a full repertoire after 1.d4 Nf6, but decided instead to offer a supplementary repertoire with 1.d4 c5 (and if 2.d5 e5) for the benefit of those readers who wouldn't be sure what to do if after 1.d4 Nf6 White abstains from 2.c4.

He adds that if after 1.d4 c5 White does not play 2.d5, Black has generally gained by going ...c5 before ...Nf6. I don't understand this.

After 1.d4 c5 2.c3 Palliser recommends 2...Nf6, when 3.Nf3 is the same as 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3.

After 1.d4 c5 2.e3 his main recommendation is 2...Nf6, when 3.Nf3 is the same as 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.e3.

White has other options on move 2, of course, but according to Palliser they account for only about 16% of games that start 1.d4 c5. In the 63% of games with 2.d5, Black seems to be worse off than after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5. In another 21% (the ones that go 2.e3 or 2.c3) it seems to make no difference, at any rate if Black follows Palliser's recommendations. So what is he referring to when he says that after alternatives to 2.d5 Black has "generally" gained from this move order?
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #22 - 11/28/13 at 13:37:40
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Alluren wrote on 11/30/09 at 10:24:27:
I think, the only case where it makes sense to play 1.d4 c5 is against low rated player who plays only the london system. They have to play 2. c3 after which you can transpose to the slav exchange, or play some other weird moves like Qc7 or Qa5. Usually those players, being out of their system don't how to play after only 3 moves...

Against "normal" players, I don't see any reason not to play 1...Nf6 then 2...c5


Black wants to play Bg5 exchanging his bad bishop. With this in mind the knight is badly placed on f6.
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #21 - 11/28/13 at 13:34:03
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Quote:
I have had some problems to get something after:
1.d4 c5 2. d5 e5 3. Nc3 d6 4. e4 Be7!? 5. Nf3 Bg4 6. Be2 Bxf3 7. Bxf3 Bg5

How do you counter this plan?


6. Nd2 instead of Le2
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #20 - 11/28/13 at 13:32:41
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Quote:
Well, ECO and NCO think that 5. Bb5+ or 5. f4 should lead to an edge.


I'm convinced.
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #19 - 01/30/10 at 01:42:47
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Nice game, Bibs!


I wonder, is the Clarendon Court (1.d4 c5 2.d5 f5) really as bad as its reputation? In the last 5 years players like Sakaev, Epishin (twice) and Shabalov (twice) have tried it.

If White plays something solid with g3/Bg2 Black gets his desired "Benongrad", but White is still slightly better anyway if we're to believe Curt Hansen, annotating his win over Henrik Danielsen for Chessbase.

I also thought the "refutation" was 3.e4! fxe4 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.g4! and now the most played 5...h6 looks too weakening and has horrible reults. So maybe 5...g6!? is worth a try? Black is willing to get his knight kicked to h5 and sacrifice a pawn there if White spends the tempi on it (g5 and Be2xh5). In return Black gets the f-file and play on the dark squares (and a weak king position...).

True story: I sometimes get the Benongrad pawn structure through the Leningrad Dutch. In a tournament game my opponent, rated around 2150, surprisingly castled queenside! Naturally, a Benko-style ...b5 break and a winning attack followed. Afterwards he explained that he had decided when he got out of bed that morning to castle long, and he wasn't going to let the position on the board get in the way of that promise! Grin
  

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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #18 - 01/29/10 at 00:27:28
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This Topic was moved here from d-Pawn Specials [move by] GMTonyKosten.
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #17 - 11/30/09 at 14:45:41
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Pretty. Your opponent might have over-estimated his connected passed pawns on the 6th rank  Wink
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #16 - 11/30/09 at 13:29:16
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Alluren wrote on 11/30/09 at 10:24:27:
I think, the only case where it makes sense to play 1.d4 c5 is against low rated player who plays only the london system. They have to play 2. c3 after which you can transpose to the slav exchange, or play some other weird moves like Qc7 or Qa5. Usually those players, being out of their system don't how to play after only 3 moves...

Against "normal" players, I don't see any reason not to play 1...Nf6 then 2...c5


Absolutely agree. And here is a duffer's Evergreen against someone who only plays the London/Tarzan:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1315573

Enjoy the sacs.

My prep for this: seeing he takes on c5 on the database, deciding to punt this and play 2...Nf6 and play a Reti/sicilian kinda thing, off sightseeing to a big castle and back for the game.
Lovely jubbly.
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #15 - 11/30/09 at 10:24:27
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I think, the only case where it makes sense to play 1.d4 c5 is against low rated player who plays only the london system. They have to play 2. c3 after which you can transpose to the slav exchange, or play some other weird moves like Qc7 or Qa5. Usually those players, being out of their system don't how to play after only 3 moves...

Against "normal" players, I don't see any reason not to play 1...Nf6 then 2...c5
  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #14 - 11/30/09 at 10:15:17
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Gambit wrote on 11/30/09 at 08:30:26:
Not really. After 1 d4 c5 2 Nf3 cxd4 3 b4 e6  4 a3 Nf6 5  e3 Bd6 6 Bd3 00 7 00 Ne8 8 00 Qc7 9 f4 Nxd4 10 ed4 Bd7 11 Be3 =



I assume you mean 5.Nd4 d5 and then 6.e3 Bd6 7.Bd3 0-0 etc.

I would dispute this variation and suggest 7...e5 8.Nf5 Bc7 as an improvement, but I don't have time to analyse this right now. On the other hand, 7.c4 instead of 7.Bd3 may be better in order to liquidate Black's centre since now 7...e5 8.Nb5 is somewhat annoying for Black.
  

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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #13 - 11/30/09 at 08:30:26
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Not really. After 1 d4 c5 2 Nf3 cxd4 3 b4 e6  4 a3 Nf6 5  e3 Bd6 6 Bd3 00 7 00 Ne8 8 00 Qc7 9 f4 Nxd4 10 ed4 Bd7 11 Be3 =

  
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Re: 1.d4 c5?
Reply #12 - 11/30/09 at 07:28:29
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Gambit wrote on 11/30/09 at 02:20:34:
I usually meet the Benoni, 1 d4 c5, with the Zilbermints Variation. This can occur in one of two ways:

1 d4 c5 2 b4! or 1 d4 c5 2 Nf3 cxd4 3 b4!

I prefer the second option, as it prevents Black from playing 2...cxb4.



After 3.b4, in the worst case scenario Black can play 3...e6 4.a3 Nf6 5.Nd4 d5 when Black is certainly equal and perhaps even a little bit better after a future ...e5.
  

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