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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7 (Read 8118 times)
LeeRoth
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #13 - 12/01/09 at 20:45:43
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Vidit wrote on 12/01/09 at 15:06:34:
What is the name of the rizzitano's book? Smiley


Chess Explained: The Taimanov Sicilian

http://www.gambitbooks.com/books/cetaimanov.html

has a pdf excerpt and links to various reviews.   
  
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Vidit
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #12 - 12/01/09 at 15:06:34
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What is the name of the rizzitano's book? Smiley
  

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LeeRoth
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #11 - 11/30/09 at 18:59:06
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@Stigma -- Taimanov wrote a small book on "his" variation that was published in English.  Some good material, but Taimanov considers "his" variation only those lines where Black plays . .Nge7, with the idea of ..Nc6xd4, ..Ne7-c6.

@Vidit -- The Burgess book was an excellent reference in its day, but is now dated.  I hardly look at it anymore.  It's nice to have, but no longer essential.  If you're looking for a general treatment of the opening, then I would opt for the Rizzitano book simply because it's more recent.    

  
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Vidit
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #10 - 11/30/09 at 11:11:22
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Ya probably i should write Any gr8 books on Taimanov Opening. Smiley

What about the book The Taimanov Sicilian by Graham Burgess? It looks quite interesting.If anybody has read it,is it worth investing?
  

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Stigma
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #9 - 11/30/09 at 10:26:59
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Vidit wrote on 11/30/09 at 06:26:59:
Any gr8 books on taimanov?


The way the question is phrased, I would say this is the appropriate answer:

http://www.amazon.com/Taimanovs-Selected-Games-Mark-Taimanov/dp/1857441559

Wink

Taimanov's own Winning with the Sicilian is still a good games collection to learn about the typical middlegames and endgames of "his" variation btw.
  

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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #8 - 11/30/09 at 09:03:52
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Vidit wrote on 11/30/09 at 06:26:59:
Any gr8 books on taimanov?


the best is probably the safest Sicilian, Rizzitano also wrote a book on it.  check out the forum and i'm sure there is good information for the subscribers about the Taminov.
  
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Vidit
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #7 - 11/30/09 at 06:26:59
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Any gr8 books on taimanov?
  

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wcywing
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #6 - 11/29/09 at 22:56:34
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You should use N=knight; K=king.   

I am thinking about playing the taminov.  I think the safest sicilian is the best book on the taiminov.
  
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #5 - 11/27/09 at 13:10:45
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What I really want to avoid is the Probing Bishop Variation with 1e4 c5 2Kf3 e6 3d4 cd4 4Kd4 Kc6 5Kb5 d6 6Bg5 e5 7Be3 as Fischer used to play.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 4..Qc7
Reply #4 - 11/27/09 at 10:55:10
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That is interesting thanks Smiley When I originally posted I did wander if black had anything like this.

As 5 Nb5 ^ 5.. Qb8 6 c4 seems pretty well equivalent to the standard Taimanov Nb5/c4 stuff, I suppose you're trading either the complications above or a mildly inferior hedgehog for the anti Taimanov.

Doesn't seem an especially great exchange for me, but if you really don't want to allow the anti Taimanov for some reason then it certainly doesn't seem insane. 

Might be worth looking at various Kan move orders too.
  
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #3 - 11/26/09 at 20:19:13
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We have had some interesting discussion on this topic before and our conclusion back then was that the pawn grab on e4 that you refer to looks very dangerous for black. Perhaps you have some new ideas, as I in principle find black's idea very appealing.
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1184654042/8#8
  
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gramsci
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #2 - 11/26/09 at 15:14:08
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The 'problem' with 2.. Nc6 and 4.. Qc7 is that you let white go 5 c4 for 'free' - e6 deters this by keeping Bb4+ in reserve. Thats the only reason white goes Nb5 then c4 in the main Taminov move order - unsurprisingly he doesn't want to send his knight to a3

So the problem is white gets a Maroczy Bind without the knight on a3? like in the solid Kan Sicilian? Although, in exchange for this niusance -not to mention the interesting line 1e4 c5 2Kf3 Kc6 3d4 cd4 4Kd4 Qc7 5c4 Kf6 6Kc3 Kxe4¡? 7Ke4 Qe5- you avoid the Probing Bishop Variation with 5.Kb5 6.Bg5 which is indeed the line what worries me most because it tends to Kalashnikov/Sveshnikov pawn structures that i'm not used to. I gave up the sharp Najdorf  and started to study the Taimanov but I'm not sure which move order to employ?  Any advice? Thanks in advance.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
Reply #1 - 11/26/09 at 14:15:08
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Well firstly 2.. e6 3 d3/c3 really aren't 'improved' (compared to their move 2 parents) in any meaningful sense. They do perhaps tend to suggest black to use more classical set ups than sometimes used but they're very reliable.

If you really don't like those for whatever reason you can of course instead go 2.. Nc6 ^ 4.. e6.

The 'problem' with 2.. Nc6 and 4.. Qc7 is that you let white go 5 c4 for 'free' - e6 deters this by keeping Bb4+ in reserve. Thats the only reason white goes Nb5 then c4 in the main Taminov move order - unsurprisingly he doesn't want to send his knight to a3 Smiley
  
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gramsci
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Taimanov move order 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 vs. 2..e6 5..Qc7
11/26/09 at 10:05:19
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I'd like to know which are the pros and cons of using the 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 move order to reach the Taimanov Sicilian (a la Miladinovic, Macieja, Oral, etc..) vs. the classical move order 2..e6 3...Kc6 5..Qc7 defended by taimanov's experts like Delchev or J. Polgar. At first sight, the 2..Kc6 4..Qc7 move order avoids the Probing Bishop and Maroczy Bind Variations after 5.Kb5 6.Bg5 or 6.c4 -which are supoused to be the main drawback of the taimanov- and the anti-sicilians 1.e4 c5 2.Kf3 e6 3.c3 and 3.d3 in an improved version of the c3 sicilian and the KIA because of the early e6. And all this adventages just for tolerating a relatively dangerous version of the 2...Kc6 3.Bb5 anti-sicilian?. It seems like a good deal, don't you think?. I'll really appreciate your comments.
  
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