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Normal Topic Ruy Lopez move order (Read 4203 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Ruy Lopez move order
Reply #8 - 04/08/10 at 02:16:40
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Yes, I think that's a standard view.  ECO cites that Hübner-Kavalek game as slightly better for White, for example.  Such books think that 6. c3 and 6. Bxc6+ are also good.
  
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joakimvitriol
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Re: Ruy Lopez move order
Reply #7 - 04/08/10 at 01:38:02
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Maybe one of the ideas behind early d6 instead of Be7 is Na5 threat against bishop so logically white should reply c3 (and I agree that white keeps option to play Worrall attack)to make room for his bishop but it looks that white is more then OK if black tries this plan after Re1. I found some games where this position was reached from deferred Steinitz move order and it looks that after d4 white still gets some advantage:
[Event "Tilburg"]
[Site "Tilburg"]
[Date "1980.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Huebner, Robert"]
[Black "Kavalek, Lubomir"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C79"]
[WhiteElo "2600"]
[BlackElo "2600"]
[PlyCount "69"]
[EventDate "1980.09.??"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "NED"]
[EventCategory "15"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1999.07.01"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 d6 5. O-O Nf6 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 Na5 8. d4
Nxb3 9. axb3 exd4 10. Nxd4 Bd7 11. e5 dxe5 12. Rxe5+ Be7 13. Qe2 c5 14. Nf3 Be6
15. Bg5 O-O 16. Nc3 Qc7 17. h3 h6 18. Bh4 Rfe8 19. Re1 Kh8 20. Qe3 Nd7 21. Rxe6
fxe6 22. Bxe7 b4 23. Nh4 bxc3 24. bxc3 Qc6 25. Rd1 c4 26. Rd6 Qb5 27. Qxe6 Nf8
28. Qf7 Rxe7 29. Qxe7 Re8 30. Qc7 Re1+ 31. Kh2 Qe5+ 32. g3 Re2 33. Qb6 Kh7 34.
Rd8 Ne6 35. Rh8+ 1-0

  
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MNb
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Re: Ruy Lopez move order
Reply #6 - 04/07/10 at 22:38:50
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Sometimes White might prefer to play Qe2 and Rd1. It's nice to postpone the decision a bit.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Ruy Lopez move order
Reply #5 - 04/07/10 at 13:21:12
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Perhaps because I'm not all that well educated about it, my notion of what White is doing for a living in the closed Spanish prominently involves Nbd2-f1-g3 or -e3.  So from my ignorant perspective, I wonder if White's avoiding Re1 is such a big deal, in the long run.
  

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joakimvitriol
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Re: Ruy Lopez move order
Reply #4 - 04/06/10 at 16:18:30
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Ok. 7.c3 doesn't lead to main lines by force but is it good for white to try to go for main lines or he have better options?

It is interesting (if I remember correctly) that Shirov in one of his DVDs on Spanish mentioned that 7.Ng5 is practically refutation but in database most players respond with 7.c3 or 7.Re1. I found this game:
[Event "Cadiz op 17th"]
[Site "San Fernando"]
[Date "2003.07.22"]
[Round "7.2"]
[White "Cheparinov, Ivan"]
[Black "Pavon Cardenas, Jesus M"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C78"]
[WhiteElo "2529"]
[BlackElo "2019"]
[PlyCount "31"]
[EventDate "2003.07.18"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "8"]
[EventCountry "ESP"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2003.09.04"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O b5 6. Bb3 d6 7. Ng5 d5 8. exd5
Nd4 9. d3 Bc5 10. Ne4 Nxb3 11. axb3 Qxd5 12. Nbc3 Qc6 13. Nxc5 Qxc5 14. Qf3 Rb8
15. Bg5 Rb6 16. Be3 1-0

Black lost the exchange and the game in funny way but according to engines white didn't got any advantage after 7.Ng5.

  
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MNb
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Re: Ruy Lopez move order
Reply #3 - 04/06/10 at 11:01:13
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Why should 7.c3 transpose to the main lines? With this move order White doesn't always have to play Re1 later.
The point is that 5...Be7 really threats 6...Nxe4. Other move orders don't.
  

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joakimvitriol
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Re: Ruy Lopez move order
Reply #2 - 04/06/10 at 07:18:35
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Looks that most of the players still respond with 7.Re1 but I found  one game where Navara played 7. a4 against Jakovenko and it ended in a draw.

What about this move order:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O b5 6. Bb3 d6

Should white transpose to the main lines with 7.c3 or he should play 7.Re1 or even 7.Ng5?
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Ruy Lopez move order
Reply #1 - 12/05/09 at 18:22:51
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BobbyDigital80 wrote on 12/05/09 at 13:50:40:
Is there a difference between these two move orders? 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 and 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O b5 6. Bb3 Be7

If the second one is viable then it would cut out the delayed exchange variation. But maybe White has something better than 7.Re1 there?



He does.  He plays 7.d4! and after 7..d6, he doesn't have to worry about the e4 pawn because Black's Nxe4 can be met by Bd5.

  
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BobbyDigital80
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Ruy Lopez move order
12/05/09 at 13:50:40
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Is there a difference between these two move orders? 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 and 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O b5 6. Bb3 Be7

If the second one is viable then it would cut out the delayed exchange variation. But maybe White has something better than 7.Re1 there?

  
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