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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble (Read 10742 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #23 - 04/03/18 at 19:47:48
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FreeRepublic wrote on 02/23/18 at 14:09:33:
After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5! Bd7!? 7. Qd2 Rc8 8. O-O-O Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. f4, black has a few options. I'm not sure of black's chances after 10...h6 11Bxf6! gxf6 12Kb1 Qc5 13Qd3.


For me, this variation goes against the grain for two reasons. More "natural" seems 6...e6 7...Be7 and 8...0-0. However it's proven hard for black to shake white's grip.

And 10...h6 seems odd too. Black takes a tempo to force white to play a move that he wants to play anyway. Black does have an idea though. He wants to force BxN gxf6 and then play Bg7 and f5.

A Dragon proponent (my favorite exponents are 2 and e) might suggest that black simply play the Dragon to fianchetto his bishop. However circumstances differ. The Dragon player sometimes finds his bishop countered by Bh6 or Bd4. Here black's squared bishop is unopposed by it's white counterpart.

Here's a case where this works out for black:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 Bd7 7. Qd2 Rc8 8. O-O-O Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. f4 h6 11. Bxf6 gxf6 12. Kb1 Qc5 13. Qd2 f5 14. exf5 Bxf5 15. Bb5+ Kd8 16. Bd3 Bxd3 17. Qxd3 Bg7 18. Nd5 e6 19.Ne3 Rc6 20. c3 Kc7 21. Rhe1 Kb8 22. Rc1 h5 23. f5
Liberzon Vladimir M (ISR)-Stein Leonid Z (UKR) It \
1/2-1/2 Amsterdam (Netherlands) Round 3 1969

But here white's play is more exact:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 Bd7 7. Qd2 Rc8 8. O-O-O Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. f4 h6 11. Bxf6 gxf6 12. Kb1 Qc5 13. Qd3 f5 14. exf5 Bxf5 15. Qg3 (white threatens Rd5 winning the bishop) Qb4 16. Rd5 Be4 17. Qg4 f5 18. Qg6+ Kd8 19. a3 Qb3 20. Bd3 Bxd3 21. Rxd3 Qg8 22. Qxf5 Qxg2 23. Rhd1 Rg8 24. Rg3
Motylev Alexander (RUS)-Dreev Alexey (RUS) Ch Spain (team) (Honor gr.1) 1-0 Lugo (Spain) Round 3 20070622

I still like 6...a6!? and that is covered on another thread.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #22 - 02/23/18 at 16:07:01
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After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5! Bd7!? 7. Qd2 Rc8 8. O-O-O Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. f4 e5, Wells continues with 11Qd3. ChessPublishing analyzes both 11Qd3 and 11fxe5. It seems that white is better after 11fxe5 dxe5 12Qd2. If 12...Bc6 then 13Bxf6 gxf 14Qf2 and white has the better chances.

After 10...e6, Wells analyzes 11Bxf6!? gxf6 12Kb1 among other options. White can also snatch a pawn with 12Qxf6.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #21 - 02/23/18 at 14:09:33
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After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5! Bd7!? 7. Qd2 Rc8 8. O-O-O Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. f4, black has a few options. I'm not sure of black's chances after 10...h6 11Bxf6! gxf6 12Kb1 Qc5 13Qd3. 10...e5!? looks pretty wild.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #20 - 02/23/18 at 12:26:12
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"IE works"

Yes, it works for me too. I'm glad I kept a copy of IE.
  
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brabo
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #19 - 02/23/18 at 05:30:20
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 02/23/18 at 03:52:47:
@FreeRepublic - Try a less secure browser. Firefox gives me a blank box, Edge gives me "can't reach this page", but IE works. That's because modern browsers disable cross-domain scripting.

Or the hard way: in Firefox, right-click, inspect element, right-click, copy inner-html, paste into a text editor and unescape the ascii characters to get the PGN.

This annoying issue is the main-reason why I switched to the chess.com-viewer last year. Anyway an easier trick to see the games is to have a look to the Dutch version of the blog. I converted there also the old articles to the new viewer : http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.be/2017/02/anoniem.html
So if you struggle with the old flash viewer in the older articles of my English blog then just look up the same article on my Dutch blog. In fact normally I translate my Dutch articles a couple of days later to English. It is a free service which I offer as several players complained how terrible google translate works.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #18 - 02/23/18 at 03:52:47
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@FreeRepublic - Try a less secure browser. Firefox gives me a blank box, Edge gives me "can't reach this page", but IE works. That's because modern browsers disable cross-domain scripting.

Or the hard way: in Firefox, right-click, inspect element, right-click, copy inner-html, paste into a text editor and unescape the ascii characters to get the PGN.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #17 - 02/23/18 at 03:27:23
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brabo wrote on 02/22/18 at 22:00:40:
FreeRepublic wrote on 02/22/18 at 19:43:40:
In the Rauzer, the Larsen variation is one way for black to continue the theme of queen side development: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5!? Bd7!? 7. Qd2
Rc8!?

80-0-0 is typical for the RR. The game may continue Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. f4! Rxc3! 11. bxc3 e5 12. Qb4! Qxb4 13.cxb4 Nxe4 14. Bh4 g5! 15. fxg5 Be7. I think this ChessPublishing comment has held up well: "which left Black with reasonable play for exchange."

I checked this line 1 year ago and considered black's compensation rather poor see http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2017/02/anonymous.html


Thanks for the comment and link. I followed the link and enjoyed the article. Unfortunately I can't see the embedded games.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #16 - 02/22/18 at 22:00:40
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FreeRepublic wrote on 02/22/18 at 19:43:40:
In the Rauzer, the Larsen variation is one way for black to continue the theme of queen side development: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5!? Bd7!? 7. Qd2
Rc8!?

80-0-0 is typical for the RR. The game may continue Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. f4! Rxc3! 11. bxc3 e5 12. Qb4! Qxb4 13.cxb4 Nxe4 14. Bh4 g5! 15. fxg5 Be7. I think this ChessPublishing comment has held up well: "which left Black with reasonable play for exchange."

I checked this line 1 year ago and considered black's compensation rather poor see http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2017/02/anonymous.html
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #15 - 02/22/18 at 19:43:40
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After 1e4 c5 2Nf3 d6 3d4 cxd 4Nxd4 Nf6 5Nc3, black can enter the Classical Sicilian with Nc6. White's most aggressive and best moves are 6Bg5! and 6Bc4!? In both cases, black usually responds in Schevenigen style 6...e6. All perfectly natural and logical. However that is not the only way to proceed.

With 6...Nc6, black chose immediate queen-side development. This contrasts somewhat with the Najdorf 6...a6, or the Dragon 6...g6. In the Sozin, black has done very well in the Benko variation. After 1e4 c5 2Nf3 d6 3d4 cxd 4Nxd4 Nf6 5Nc3 Nc6 6Bc4 black plays Qb6!? it can be argued that black is playing thematically making maximum use of his c6 knight to force white's hand.

In the Rauzer, the Larsen variation is one way for black to continue the theme of queen side development: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5!? Bd7!? 7. Qd2
Rc8!?

80-0-0 is typical for the RR. The game may continue Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. f4! Rxc3! 11. bxc3 e5 12. Qb4! Qxb4 13.cxb4 Nxe4 14. Bh4 g5! 15. fxg5 Be7. I think this ChessPublishing comment has held up well: "which left Black with reasonable play for exchange."

I've answered the RR and the Sozin with 6...e6 for years. But perhaps black does best to continue on theme with queen side development as in the Larsen and Benko variations.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #14 - 02/22/18 at 18:50:22
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Tarzan wrote on 12/12/10 at 18:28:37:
Just a heads up, the articles that I have say Be2 is best after Bd7 according to theory.


Comments from ChessPublishing:
"According to theory this is best, but I'm not so sure."
...
"Absolutely recommended vs the so called modern Rauser."

White usually does not mind the loss of tempo that follows Qd2, ...Nxd4, Qxd4. However if he does object, he can play Be2 and 0-0. While castling kingside might give white a slight edge, I don't think it can be much.

Here is something from ChessPublishing:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5!? Bd7!? 7. Be2!? a6 8. O-O e6 9. Qd3 "White gets a Scheviningen type position but he doesn't have much." That game ended in a draw.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #13 - 02/22/18 at 18:42:32
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iris wrote on 12/08/09 at 00:13:39:
The Larsen line of the Classical 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 Cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Bg5 Bd7 seems to be in trouble..after 7.Qd2 Rc8 8.f4! Nd4 9.Qd4 Qa5 10.e5 was the Alsina Leal-Dreev 2009,1-0 crush


This line is extremely sharp.

Here is extended analysis (each side can vary along the way) analysis from ChessPublishing:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5!? Bd7!? 7. Qd2 Rc8!? 8. f4!? Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. e5! dxe5!? 11. fxe5 e6 12. O-O-O Bc6 13. Nb5! Bxb5! 14. exf6 Bc6! 15. h4 g6 16. Bc4 Bc5 17. Qg4! h5 18. Qg3!? Be4! 19.Rhe1 Bf5 20. Rd5 Bg4 (novelty) 21. Bd2 Qb6 22. Qf4 Kf8 "was likely about equal."
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #12 - 02/22/18 at 18:20:51
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1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 Bd7!? 7. Qd2 Rc8 8. O-O-O Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5 10. Bd2!?

"I really do not have an answer to 10.Bd2!..the best I can find are some inferior endgames of Dreevs...any help with 10.Bd2 would be appreciated!..."

In reply, "Bd2 doesn't seem right. All of white's ideas in this opening are telling me to take on f6 in this position, bring the rooks to the center and prepare to either open it up with a pawn sacrifice or a piece sacrifice on d5."

I agree with the response. Bg5 is the RR move. Combined with Qd2 and 0-0-0, white has potent X-ray powers on the d8 square. 10Bd2 and we no longer have a Richter-Rauzer! However there is till a game to play.

I recommend 10...a6 11f3. White wants to be able to retreat the queen in response to Qc5 since Q trades usually secures black an reasonable position in the RR.

After 10Bd2 a6 11f3, Black can pursue Dragon ideas with 11...g6 or 11...Qc5 12Qd3 g6 (or 12 ...Be6).

More in the RR spirit I think is:
10. Bd2 a6 11. f3 e5 12. Qd3 Be6 13. a3 Qc7

ChessPublishing reaches this position and follows a game with 14Bg5 (again) Nd7 15Kb1 Be7, and concludes white is better. 15...Be7 has no appeal for me. My silicon assistant suggests the somewhat novel 15...Nb6. It makes sense to cover the d5 square again. Also black takes control of the c4 square. If white continues optimistically with, for example 16h5, black has ...Bc4 17Qd2 Bxf1 18R(h)xf1 Nc4 19Qd3 Nxa3ch with advantage.

I think 10Bd2 leads to a variety of novel positions with chances for both sides. However it rather undoes the dreaded Richter-Rauzer.
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #11 - 12/12/10 at 18:28:37
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iris wrote on 12/08/09 at 00:13:39:
The Larsen line of the Classical 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 Cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Bg5 Bd7 seems to be in trouble..after 7.Qd2 Rc8 (8.f4! Nd4 9.Qd4 Qa5 10.e5 was the Alsina Leal-Dreev 2009,1-0 crush)8.O-O-O Nd4 9.Qd4 Qa5 and it seems that just about anything gives white an add..10.Be3,10.h4  Undecided...but I really do not have an answer to 10.Bd2!..this best I can find are some inferior endgames of Dreevs...any help with 10.Bd2 would be appreciated!..

Bd2 doesn't seem right. All of white's ideas in this opening are telling me to take on f6 in this position, bring the rooks to the center and prepare to either open it up with a pawn sacrifice or a piece sacrifice on d5.

Just a heads up, the articles that I have say Be2 is best after Bd7 according to theory.
  
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you can play 1.e4!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #10 - 09/13/10 at 01:41:42
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i must agree with what paddy is saying.  both botvinnik and spassky playing an opening has got to speak volumes for it.  the lines with an early e6 and a6 dont really appeal to me rc8 just makes sense lining the rook up to take action.  after f4 though it might be time to look for some move order tricks like you were saying. 

and why play the berlin when you can play the marshall gambit.................
  
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Re: Classical-Larsen 6...Bd7 seems in trouble
Reply #9 - 09/12/10 at 12:59:04
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The good news for 6...Bd7 devotees is that Black is not forced to play 7...Rc8, but can instead play 7...a6 8.0-0-0 e6, transposing to one of the main lines of the Classical. De La Villa suggests that after 9.f3, 9...b5 and 9...h6 10.Be3 b5 11.Kb1 Ne5 12.Bd3 Qc7 offer Black the best chances of equality (+=/=).

  

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