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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play? (Read 40582 times)
TonyRo
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #43 - 09/21/16 at 22:22:11
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Kam, in your preferred line, that being 5...c6 6.Be2 Bf5 7.O-O Nbd7 8.Nf3 Qc7, what are you doing after the common 9.Nh4 Bg6 (assumed to be the move) 10.c4? Seems solidly better for White. If I had to make this line work for Black, I think I'd start with 8...e6 9.c4 N5f6 10.Nc3 Ne4!? - seems natural to me - most Alekhine middlegames are far more comfortable for Black with 3 or less minors. It also has an even score in some high level OTB and correspondence games.

Also, what's wrong with the Kengis?
  
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Kam
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Alekhine's Def. Modern with - 4.Nf3 Bf5 5.Bd3 Bxd3
Reply #42 - 09/21/16 at 08:29:22
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ALK
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #41 - 09/14/16 at 20:36:27
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There are many ideas to develop. I have seen interesting games (among engines) with 5. ... Bxd3 6. Qxd3 e6 (7. Qb5+ Nd7 8. Dxb7 c5 is even) 7. 00 or even 6. ... dxe5 7. Nxe5 Nd7... (this line lead to a very complicated endgame) white is slightly better but he is always in every line with Nf3. Anyway i have a lot of analisys on 4. ... Bf5 i'm trying to put online....
  
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #40 - 09/13/16 at 20:25:27
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I know that some old theory had 5. Bd3 as leading to a clear advantage for White; is there a particular way of playing against it which seemed to be fine for Black?
  
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ALK
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #39 - 09/13/16 at 19:43:46
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No one has ever tried 4. ... Bf5? It's an old variation with no charm... anyway i tried in some matches with interesting results... maybe my opponents were too weak, so i began a tournament among many strong chess engines (Stockfish, Komodo 10, many SF clones) forcing that opening line... very often black was fine. Do you think  this line could be playable?
  
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #38 - 06/14/16 at 05:29:56
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I think 4...Bg4, 4...g6, 4...dxe5 and 4...c6 are all about the same - a little better for White, but quite playable for Black too. Some nice ideas for both sides can be found if you let the machine lead the way.
  

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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #37 - 06/13/16 at 06:49:55
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Keano wrote on 05/16/16 at 20:27:03:
I think the "old main line" is worth a punt, the old guys knew a thing or two


I noticed that Rapport "took your advice" and scored 1.5/2 with it in his match against Navara.  I wonder what the players thought about this kind of thing:  4...Bg4 5. Be2 e6 6. O-O Be7 7. h3 Bh5 8. c4 Nb6 9. Nc3 O-O 10. Be3 d5 11. c5 Bxf3 12. gf, which as far as I know has long been considered +=.
  
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Keano
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #36 - 05/16/16 at 20:27:03
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I think the "old main line" is worth a punt, the old guys knew a thing or two
  
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Net Warrior
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #35 - 02/03/10 at 16:36:58
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The 1st half of video #4 is on 5...c6 and the 2nd half on 5...Nc6.  I think he might have said that he'd cover 5...e6 in the next one.

In the 5...Nc6 line he briefly mentions that 6.e6 isn't as good here for White with the bishop out in front but he only gives 6...fe without any follow-up.  The only analysis he does is for 6.c4 which he does cover in some detail.  His main line is 6...Nb6 7.ed ed and give Blacks main idea as ...Bf6...Re8...Nc5...a5 and not allowing White to capture the e file.

So there is still nothing new on the critical 6.0-0 line. 
« Last Edit: 02/04/10 at 01:31:13 by Net Warrior »  

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Markovich
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #34 - 02/03/10 at 14:41:08
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Net Warrior wrote on 02/03/10 at 11:35:44:
GM Ronen Har-Zvi has a 4 video and counting on the Alekhines.  #4 covers 4...Bg4 5.Be2 Nc6 and he concluded this line is perhaps slightly worse for Black but very playable...so far his most favorable line for Black in this variation.   


Fascinating.  It's remarkable that Har-Zvi would devote an entire video to this obsure and not-well-esteemed line.  What's he say about 4...Bg4 5.Be2 c6 and 5...e6?

Since Mikenas was no idiot and returned to this line repeatedly, I'm sure his idea was that yes, Black is worse, but it's a 'worse' that can be fairly readily survived.  Personally though, I don't have the strength of Mikenas, so I would be worried about holding the ending with those crappy queenside pawns (on c7, c6 and a7 after Bxc6).
  

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Net Warrior
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #33 - 02/03/10 at 12:17:31
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Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that the videos are available to ICC members for on line viewing but alas, it's not very thorough. 
« Last Edit: 02/03/10 at 14:24:00 by Net Warrior »  

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lg
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #32 - 02/03/10 at 11:38:21
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Where can we get that video?
  
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #31 - 02/03/10 at 11:35:44
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GM Ronen Har-Zvi has a 4 video and counting on the Alekhines.  #4 covers 4...Bg4 5.Be2 Nc6 and he concluded this line is perhaps slightly worse for Black but very playable...so far his most favorable line for Black in this variation.   
  

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lg
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #30 - 01/04/10 at 17:10:09
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Markovich wrote on 01/03/10 at 19:34:36:
lg wrote on 01/02/10 at 22:19:16:
however, looking at the variation with 4...Nb6 (which seems quite interesting, deserving much more attention than it had - despite the Karolyi NYC yearbook articles) I dont see many games followed
by Nc6


That's a non sequitur, isn't it, since here you have ...Bg4, Be2, ...Nc6 and O-O thrown in?


Yes, but 4...Nb6 is played with a reason in mind.
the move 6...Nb6 after the mentioned sequence appears the choice of a lesser evil
  
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Markovich
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Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 what to play?
Reply #29 - 01/03/10 at 19:34:36
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lg wrote on 01/02/10 at 22:19:16:
however, looking at the variation with 4...Nb6 (which seems quite interesting, deserving much more attention than it had - despite the Karolyi NYC yearbook articles) I dont see many games followed
by Nc6


That's a non sequitur, isn't it, since here you have ...Bg4, Be2, ...Nc6 and O-O thrown in?
  

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