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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C00-C19: light (trial) repertoire (B) good enough? (Read 10543 times)
MNb
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #17 - 01/04/10 at 02:09:34
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That doesn't answer my question why you did not post your remarks on the PP in the thread I linked at in my previous post.
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #16 - 01/03/10 at 02:53:12
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dom wrote on 01/02/10 at 22:48:37:
Yes, new thread PP Winawer will be good idea  Smiley


Really? Something wrong with this thread? I would rather have your last post there - just to get things better arranged.

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1241521220
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #15 - 01/02/10 at 14:32:03
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HoemberChess wrote on 01/01/10 at 09:35:58:
@Keano
Good observation. I have written a number of C++ programs.

The use of comment slashes kindof give it away Wink

I am just a little sceptical about 3.Nc3 Be7, though to be honest I have never really looked at it. Personally I'd be worried about plans involving e5 and dxc5 (surrendering the centre in exchange for posession of the fields d4 and e5) combined with Qg4. A similar line in the 3..Nf6 4.e5 line is also quite difficult to handle as black.
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #14 - 01/02/10 at 11:23:09
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Markovich wrote on 01/01/10 at 22:56:35:
I have a suggestion for Black in Shirov-Shulman.  13.Rg1 O-O-O 14.g4 d4 15.h4 and now instead of Shulman's 15...Be8 (15...Qb6 and 15...Nd5 have also been tried), my idea is 15...Ng6.  Black attacks the h-pawn and prepares to sac on e5.  If 16.h5 then 16...Ngxe5.  If 16.Qh3 then 16...Ncxe5 17.fxe5 Ba4.  If 16.Qg3 then 16...Qa5 and White has given up his capture on d4, while Black can still meet 16.h5 with the sac on e5.  If 16.Nxd4 then 16...Nxd4 17.Qd4 Nxh4 looks difficult for White; less ambitiously, Black could also try 17...Bb5.

If 15...Ng6 works, then Shirov's 15.h4 is simply a mistake.   

Food for thought, at least.


I don't particularly like 15. h4 due to 15...Ng6. I think his 15. Rb1 is more demanding of black, where black's best is possibly 15...Be8 16. Rg3 Rh8!?, which I evaluate as unclear/+= (I'm going to look at it further before making a final decision on the evaluation).

We should probably make another thread for this, though.
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #13 - 01/01/10 at 22:56:35
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I have a suggestion for Black in Shirov-Shulman.  13.Rg1 O-O-O 14.g4 d4 15.h4 and now instead of Shulman's 15...Be8 (15...Qb6 and 15...Nd5 have also been tried), my idea is 15...Ng6.  Black attacks the h-pawn and prepares to sac on e5.  If 16.h5 then 16...Ngxe5.  If 16.Qh3 then 16...Ncxe5 17.fxe5 Ba4.  If 16.Qg3 then 16...Qa5 and White has given up his capture on d4, while Black can still meet 16.h5 with the sac on e5.  If 16.Nxd4 then 16...Nxd4 17.Qd4 Nxh4 looks difficult for White; less ambitiously, Black could also try 17...Bb5.

If 15...Ng6 works, then Shirov's 15.h4 is simply a mistake.   

Food for thought, at least.
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #12 - 01/01/10 at 21:45:01
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Markovich wrote on 01/01/10 at 17:51:21:
BPaulsen wrote on 01/01/10 at 06:34:17:


Really only the Tait line bothers me at this point (dom mentions it in a thread a few pages back where he did an overview of the Winawer Poison Pawn). Unfortunately there's been little emphasis on it in practice. The traditional main lines are fully viable, and that I agree with.


I don't know if this is the place to continue this, but I'd like to continue it with you here or perhaps in new thread. 

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to navigate those chessdom pages.  I am no French specialist, but I had the impression that after [I supply all the moves for everyone's benefit] 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Qg4 Qc7 8.Qxg7 Rg8 9.Qxh7 cxd4 10.Ne2 Nbc6 11.f4 Bd7 12.Qd3 dxc3 13.Rb1 0-0-0 14.h4 Nf5 15.h5 d4 16.Rg1 f6, the correct path against 17.fxe6 was shown by Simmelink-Oomen, Netherlands 1997 (? It's in my database as 1998 as well), and that against 17.g4 by Harding-Arounopoulos, corr 1997.  What is supposed to be the problem for Black?


I meant the ChessPub user dom who created a thread a couple of pages back giving an overview of the Winawer Poison Pawn. Sorry about the confusion.

I'll have to look at the game with 17. g4 closely. Somehow that one slipped through the cracks, and thanks for bringing it to my attention. The viability of the Winawer Poison Pawn pretty much determines how big a role the French plays in my repertoire in the future. 

There's also a Shirov-Berg, Russia 2007 game with 13. Rg1!? that may very well be += even with black's possible improvement of 16...Rh8!?. I forgot about that one in my last post.
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #11 - 01/01/10 at 20:55:12
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Markovich wrote on 01/01/10 at 17:51:21:
Simmelink-Oomen, Netherlands 1997 (? It's in my database as 1998 as well)

This game is from the 28th Dutch corr. championship organised by the NBC (K28). The tournament started in 1997. Proof can be found here:

http://www.correspondentieschaken.nl/NBCTables/Kxxx/KHist.html
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #10 - 01/01/10 at 17:51:21
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BPaulsen wrote on 01/01/10 at 06:34:17:


Really only the Tait line bothers me at this point (dom mentions it in a thread a few pages back where he did an overview of the Winawer Poison Pawn). Unfortunately there's been little emphasis on it in practice. The traditional main lines are fully viable, and that I agree with.


I don't know if this is the place to continue this, but I'd like to continue it with you here or perhaps in new thread. 

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to navigate those chessdom pages.  I am no French specialist, but I had the impression that after [I supply all the moves for everyone's benefit] 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Qg4 Qc7 8.Qxg7 Rg8 9.Qxh7 cxd4 10.Ne2 Nbc6 11.f4 Bd7 12.Qd3 dxc3 13.Rb1 0-0-0 14.h4 Nf5 15.h5 d4 16.Rg1 f6, the correct path against 17.fxe6 was shown by Simmelink-Oomen, Netherlands 1997 (? It's in my database as 1998 as well), and that against 17.g4 by Harding-Arounopoulos, corr 1997.  What is supposed to be the problem for Black?
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #9 - 01/01/10 at 09:35:58
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@Keano
Good observation. I have written a number of C++ programs.

@Antillian
I am in the following situation right now. I know what a particular 1.e4-opponent plays against the French, while I didn't find a single game of him playing against the C-K in the databases. I'd have to be prepared for playing with a lot more varied pawn structures in the case of the C-K (Panov w/ 6..Bb4, Steiner System, Advance w/ 3..c5, Classical w/ 4..Bf5) than with the "light repertoire" above. (In this particular game, I am not _yet_ ready to defend the C-K, which gives White a lot more options, but I keep on studying my books.) And I need to have some idea about other variations as well in case he deviates in our game.

This player is very young, but have a good background, an IM coach, who trains him tactically above all. So he likes attacking the king, playing with an IQP, etc. But otherwise, his plans are not of the strongest.
If I don't give him opportunity to play as he likes, and come up with not only unexpected but rare moves in the opening, he will go astray, I think.

But of course, this venture with the French is not intended to be a one-game experiment. 
I used to play it. (w/ 3..Nf6 )

BTW, in the meantime I looked up myself at fide.com. (48 games last year and I was missing from 2-3 tournaments (14-21 games), where I could as well have been to.) I started "serious" play three years ago and this has been the most fertile year so far as to the number of games played.

@others
Thanks for the answers.
« Last Edit: 01/01/10 at 16:23:03 by HoemberChess »  
as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #8 - 01/01/10 at 06:34:17
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Markovich wrote on 01/01/10 at 06:09:12:
BPaulsen wrote on 01/01/10 at 05:50:19:
Antillian wrote on 12/31/09 at 22:11:42:
I am curious as to why you would invest time in a another defense when you only get to play 20-25 games a year. That would average out to 10 - 12 games with Black. When you take out White's other first move options, you are left with maybe 5 or 6 games against 1. e4 a year. And you feel you need to learn a second option for surprise. You barely have time to practice your main defense at all! Hmm...seems counterproductive to me.  Undecided


I spend time on the Modern, and even though I don't play it nearly as much as my primary choice (Caro-Kann, formerly French, but I've always had the Pirc/Modern as a secondary weapon for practical play), my score with it is outstanding. Much, much better percentage-wise (granted, from a more limited number of games) than my primary choices ever produced.

Having weapons that you can use when someone knows what you play otherwise is invaluable. Even if you only get to use it once, if it results in a win it was well worth the effort, right?


BPaulsen, I dunno if you've noticed that John Watson in his first French update maintains that the main lines of the Winawer Poisoned Pawn are viable for Black.  I'd be interested in your reaction to what he says there.


Really only the Tait line bothers me at this point (dom mentions it in a thread a few pages back where he did an overview of the Winawer Poison Pawn). Unfortunately there's been little emphasis on it in practice. The traditional main lines are fully viable, and that I agree with.
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #7 - 01/01/10 at 06:09:12
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BPaulsen wrote on 01/01/10 at 05:50:19:
Antillian wrote on 12/31/09 at 22:11:42:
I am curious as to why you would invest time in a another defense when you only get to play 20-25 games a year. That would average out to 10 - 12 games with Black. When you take out White's other first move options, you are left with maybe 5 or 6 games against 1. e4 a year. And you feel you need to learn a second option for surprise. You barely have time to practice your main defense at all! Hmm...seems counterproductive to me.  Undecided


I spend time on the Modern, and even though I don't play it nearly as much as my primary choice (Caro-Kann, formerly French, but I've always had the Pirc/Modern as a secondary weapon for practical play), my score with it is outstanding. Much, much better percentage-wise (granted, from a more limited number of games) than my primary choices ever produced.

Having weapons that you can use when someone knows what you play otherwise is invaluable. Even if you only get to use it once, if it results in a win it was well worth the effort, right?


BPaulsen, I dunno if you've noticed that John Watson in his first French update maintains that the main lines of the Winawer Poisoned Pawn are viable for Black.  I'd be interested in your reaction to what he says there.
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #6 - 01/01/10 at 05:50:19
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Antillian wrote on 12/31/09 at 22:11:42:
I am curious as to why you would invest time in a another defense when you only get to play 20-25 games a year. That would average out to 10 - 12 games with Black. When you take out White's other first move options, you are left with maybe 5 or 6 games against 1. e4 a year. And you feel you need to learn a second option for surprise. You barely have time to practice your main defense at all! Hmm...seems counterproductive to me.  Undecided


I spend time on the Modern, and even though I don't play it nearly as much as my primary choice (Caro-Kann, formerly French, but I've always had the Pirc/Modern as a secondary weapon for practical play), my score with it is outstanding. Much, much better percentage-wise (granted, from a more limited number of games) than my primary choices ever produced.

Having weapons that you can use when someone knows what you play otherwise is invaluable. Even if you only get to use it once, if it results in a win it was well worth the effort, right?
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #5 - 12/31/09 at 22:11:42
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I am curious as to why you would invest time in a another defense when you only get to play 20-25 games a year. That would average out to 10 - 12 games with Black. When you take out White's other first move options, you are left with maybe 5 or 6 games against 1. e4 a year. And you feel you need to learn a second option for surprise. You barely have time to practice your main defense at all! Hmm...seems counterproductive to me.  Undecided
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #4 - 12/31/09 at 06:23:22
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I like the look of most of your intended lines, but after some bad experiences with 3.Nd2/3.Nc3 Be7, I recommend either playing the Fort Knox or, if you are after a more enterprising choice, play 3...Nf6 against both moves. There is quite a bit of theory to learn, but you won't be in serious trouble if you don't know the theory. The key is to understand all the middlegame plans and themes in the pawn structure with the White pawn chain from b2 to e5, both with and without f4.
  
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Re: A light (trial) repertoire (B)--Is it good enough?
Reply #3 - 12/31/09 at 05:08:55
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Yeah, the 5. c3 line drove me away from that particular answer to the KIA, too. If you're happy with that particular line, and like the positions, by all means keep playing it.

Personally I ultimately chose 2...c5 against 2. Qe2 and 2. d3, as Watson pushed in "Play the French" as one of his two solutions.
  
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