(UTC)
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › French › C00: what's your best line against the KIA?
(Moderators: proustiskeen, Smyslov_Fan)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C00: what's your best line against the KIA? (Read 18910 times)
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: C00: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #24 - 04/17/12 at 14:48:12
Post Tools
I fully agree on most things said here. What White really is prepared for is the plan TN talks about (Re1/e5/Nf1/h4 etc). It is still ok for Black to play against this, e.g. as Uhlmann, but I'd also play something else just because it will more likely give better chances for a surprise and positions White is not as familiar with.

Since I play the Sicilian Kan, I normally play ...c5, and go for the Botvinnik set-up (saves me time for other things than preparation). Gawain Jones plan against this is a bit annoying, but I don't think it is worse for Black. There are some improvements on his games.

As mentioned, the thing to be aware of is not to hurry with kingside castling, but still be alert to the Dvoretsky-plan of an exchange on d5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: C00: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #23 - 04/17/12 at 12:39:07
Post Tools
2..d5 ^ various developing moves and/or swapping on e4 before going into an odd sort of e4/e5 position the principal source. Several variations on that idea, some almost forcing white into sort of French style positions.

If going 3 Qe2 might just want to consider 2 Qe2 as well, unless 2 .. c5 a problem there.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Laramonet
Senior Member
****
Offline


Gwyddbwll am byth !

Posts: 346
Location: Kidwelly
Joined: 03/16/07
Gender: Male
Re: C00: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #22 - 04/17/12 at 11:38:48
Post Tools
It having dawned on me that playing against the Sicilian as per Gawain Jones's book, it would seem that the K.I.A. versus the French is an economical choice. In general, Gawain suggests playing Qe2 and c4 before determining where the Queen's knight will go, a3, c3 or d2. My question is, when facing the French, are there popular lines for Black that don't include c5 ? To keep transpositions into Gawain's repertoire possible I believe the first moves would be 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Qe2.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #21 - 06/30/10 at 00:41:52
Post Tools
I find 1. e4 e6 2. d3 b5 to be similar to 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 b5 in spirit, which is fine for black too.
  
2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
dom
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #20 - 06/27/10 at 14:07:36
Post Tools
@Reverse:  Smiley nice prophylactic move (to protect against the shooting  "b5?!" ).
But White plans are quickly dubious here in this game: if White follows main plan then f4 move is maybe too aggressive (can transpose to a good KIA for Black with a strange move order) and if White want to go off-beaten track (like in the game: an exchange exd5 and a losing tempo tempo d3-d4) it can be worse.
I think White can play like in 2..b6 games: a quick g3 + Bg2 fianchetto
  
“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Reverse
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 212
Location: USA
Joined: 11/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #19 - 06/26/10 at 17:36:51
Post Tools
Someone will probably shoot me for suggesting this, but I quite like this line played Movsesian(about 2700). It is a complete shock to the KIA player and as far as tournament results go, a good weapon as usually they spend a lot of time in the opening trying to figure out how to punish black. I think black is fine though; white did play 2.d3.

[Event "Litomysl op"]
[Site "Litomysl"]
[Date "1995.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "2"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Zigo Viktor"]
[Black "Sergei Movsesian"]
[ECO "C00"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "60"]

1.e4 e6 2.d3 b5 3.f4 Bb7 4.Nf3 d5 5.exd5 exd5 6.d4 a6 7.Bd3
Nf6 8.O-O Be7 9.c3 c5 10.Kh1 O-O 11.Be3 Nbd7 12.Nbd2 Ne4
13.Bc2 Qc7 14.Ne5 Ndf6 15.Ndf3 c4 16.Ng5 Bd6 17.Rf3 Bc8 18.Qe1
Bf5 19.Rc1 Rae8 20.Qh4 Qc8 21.g4 Bxg4 22.Bxe4 dxe4 23.Rg3 Bh5
24.Rcg1 g6 25.Nxh7 Kxh7 26.Qxf6 Be7 27.Qb6 Bh4 28.Kg2 Bxg3
29.hxg3 f6 30.Qa7+ Kg8 0-1
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
agropop
Junior Member
**
Offline


Use your brain

Posts: 51
Location: Madrid
Joined: 04/13/10
Gender: Male
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #18 - 06/25/10 at 09:02:50
Post Tools
Also a interesting choice is playing the Ulhmann variation. But it needs good preparation. Very instructive is Matamoros's article in NIC yearbook 76. After 1.e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. Ngf3 c5 5. g3 Be7 6. Bg2 Nc6 7. 0-0 0-0 8. Re1 Rb8 9. e5 Nd7 10. Nf1 b5 11. h4 b4 12. Bf4 a5 13. Nh2 Ba6 most challenging is 14. Ng5 after Ulhmann's move was 14...Qe8 and if 15. Qh5 Bg5 16. hg5? f5!.

Of course things are not so easy and white can easily improve. Matamoros gives in his notes of the game Mainwald- Bruzón a road for advantage for white.

Instead of 14. Ng5 there is the plan h5-h6 and play the the weakened dark squares. This is of course very dangerous for black and he must be alert. Black should follow the following gides:

  • When h5-h6 is played, never allow the exchanging dark squared bishops with Bg5 (prepared usually with Qd2) with a well timed Re8 and the useful Qc7.


  • The knight jump Nd4 is best played when white has already played Ng4. If black plays it when white knight on h2 then usually follows Nd4 cd and Nf3 next (xd4).


  • Of course try to open white's queenside with a4-a3 or b4-b3. Most of players use to react to black's ...a4 with a3, themselves. Matamoros thinks that this is not really necessary, maybe it even speeds up black's play. 



Of course is not a good practical choice if you are not well prepared but it's ideal for playing for the whole point in "true french fashion".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #17 - 03/13/10 at 10:13:55
Post Tools
Meat wrote on 03/12/10 at 07:52:53:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/04/10 at 22:11:36:
even if they've never read Dvoretsky's articles on the KIA.  



Where would I find those, please?



Maybe SF refers to "Opening Preparation" Dvorestky & Yusupov's book. 1994 Bastford EDd. ; ISBN 0-7134-7509-9 ?

chapter 6 "Building an Opening Repertoire" 

chapter 7 "The King's Indian Attack" 24 pages
  
“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Meat
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 184
Joined: 06/27/06
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #16 - 03/12/10 at 07:52:53
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/04/10 at 22:11:36:
even if they've never read Dvoretsky's articles on the KIA.  


Where would I find those, please?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
zoo
Ex Member


Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #15 - 03/09/10 at 15:57:51
Post Tools
perhaps you made up this "must", is it mentioned as a necessity in the book you mention ? White doesn't play on the queenside, so if you go for a setup with b5-c5-Bb7 it makes little difference which pawn moves first. As for pushing forward all queenside pawns with the king stuck in the centre, you have to expect some cooperation from White.
 
PS. you speak about "refining the idea" by leaving the bishop at f8 until not needed elsewhere. The bishop needs to move when the king must be ready to castle quickly ; as long as it stays on f8, f7 is soft spot and Rh8 is sleeping. Moreover ...b5 only makes sense when g3 is played, so what do you play after 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.Ngf3?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Holbox
Senior Member
****
Offline


Saigón Café

Posts: 369
Joined: 02/08/05
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #14 - 03/09/10 at 15:25:41
Post Tools
Templare2 wrote on 03/07/10 at 22:00:53:
Is there something wrong with the line suggested by McDonald in "How to Play Against 1. e4?"

1. e4 e6  2. d3 d5  3. Nd2 Nf6  4. Nf3 Be7  5. g3 b5 avoind castling until is absolutely necessary.

(The KIA) "is designed to mate a black king sitting on g8 and You will agree it does that pretty well. But what if there is non black king sitting on g8?" (McDonald)



I like very much McDonald's philosophy. I think It almost refutes the KIA. What I haven't understood yet is why black must play ...b5 before ...c5?  In blitz I have refined his idea even more by leaving the bishop at f8 until needed at e7 or even better at c5, b4 or a3. Black has many, many useful moves before committing his king position (c5, b5-b4, a5, Ba6-b7, Ra7, Nf6-d7-b6, Qc7 or even sometimes Qd7!?, h6, Be7, etc, etc.). 
  
"Ladran, luego cabalgamos", NN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Templare2
Full Member
***
Offline


Mess with the best, die
like the rest

Posts: 146
Joined: 08/23/06
Gender: Male
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #13 - 03/07/10 at 22:00:53
Post Tools
Is there something wrong with the line suggested by McDonald in "How to Play Against 1. e4?"

1. e4 e6  2. d3 d5  3. Nd2 Nf6  4. Nf3 Be7  5. g3 b5 avoind castling until is absolutely necessary.

(The KIA) "is designed to mate a black king sitting on g8 and You will agree it does that pretty well. But what if there is non black king sitting on g8?" (McDonald)

  
"Forza e onore!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #12 - 01/08/10 at 20:40:42
Post Tools
The set-up I prefer is with pawns on e6, d5, c5 (also often on f6); knights on c6 and e7; bishops on d7 and d6; queen on c7.  I don't ususally reach this from the French, but that's one way to reach it.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
zoo
Ex Member


Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #11 - 01/08/10 at 12:14:15
Post Tools
same as TN, with the closed-sicilian Botvinnik setup (g6,Bg7,Nc6,Nge7,c5,d6,e5, later h6, Be6, f5 or d5...), playing ...e6-e5 after White's Re1. Defusing the main plan as indicated by TN has good practical value, since many Whites are more on their own when they can't roll it out. If you want to play like this, you have to make sure that White can't play e5 before you do.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: what's your best line against the KIA?
Reply #10 - 01/07/10 at 20:24:54
Post Tools
1.e4 e6 2.d3 c5 3.Nd2 Nc6 4.Nf3 and now if you like the Sicilian vs. KIA, play 4...g6. If you like the French vs. KIA, play 4...d5 5.g3 b5!. 

In my experience, some of the best Anti-KIA variations from a practical perspective are those where White's typical plan of Re1/e4-e5/Qe2/Nf1/h4/N1h2/Ng4/something on g5/something at h5 or h6 doesn't work.
  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge