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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) moving to Linux (Read 24906 times)
Vladimir
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #28 - 03/19/10 at 22:42:41
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TalJechin wrote on 03/19/10 at 22:27:02:
Well, I've followed the instructions but the engines I install crash when I start them. Can't find "Configure UCI engine" but maybe it's because it's spark.exe and not a UCI?

Would I need to find Scid's engine folder and copy the exe-files there?


Ah, .exe files are Windows-only executables. You'll have to redownload the Linux version from the Spark website.

Also, just to be sure, open up Scid again, go to the help menu, click About, and see what version you're running. The old 3.6.1 version may not have the UCI engine configuration window.

The reference picture from the Scid website for the Analysis Engine windows: http://scid.sourceforge.net/screenshots/uci.png
  
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TalJechin
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #27 - 03/19/10 at 22:27:02
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Well, I've followed the instructions but the engines I install crash when I start them. Can't find "Configure UCI engine" but maybe it's because it's spark.exe and not a UCI?

Would I need to find Scid's engine folder and copy the exe-files there?
  
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Vladimir
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #26 - 03/18/10 at 19:32:53
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[quote author=6C5954725D5B505156380 link=1262702059/25#25 date=1268928342]
So all I need now is to find out how to compile & install all the engines I downloaded and how to associate them with scid?

Btw, is there a way to reuse what you've already typed in the terminal and just change the file name to install yet another engine?[/quote]

Sure. To reuse commands in the command line, hit the up arrow key on your keyboard to scroll through the command history. Another tip is to hit the Tab key at the command line to auto-complete folder and file names, e.g., you start typing the first few letters of a folder to distinguish it from the rest, then hit Tab and it'll fill in the rest.

As for your question, some engines come in pre-compiled executables like on Windows, but I'll explain that afterwards.

For example, I had downloaded the latest Stockfish, 1.6.3. I extracted it to a folder in my home folder. /home/vlad/Chess/Engines/stockfish-163-ja

There is a subfolder in there called "src" where the source code is. Go to a terminal, and navigate to that folder using the [b]c[/b]hange [b]d[/b]irectory command (cd):

[code]
cd Chess/Engines/stockfish-163-ja/src
make[/code]

If you get lost in the directory structure, the [b]ls[/b] command will list what files are in the current folder so that you can find what you're looking for. If you enter a folder but want to go back a level, type "[b]cd ..[/b]"

After typing "make," the engine should start compiling. Once it's finished compiling, there should be a new file named "stockfish" among all the other files of code in that folder. For compiling these engines, don't type "make install" afterwards.

Next, open up Scid by typing "scid&" in the command line. The ampersand runs it in the background so that you can keep typing commands. In Scid, go to Tools -> Analysis Engine... In the window that opens, hit New. In the new window that opens, type what you want the name of the engine to be in the name field (Stockfish 1.6.3 64bit or so). In the Command field, hit the ... button and navigate through your folders for the executable, Chess -> Engines -> stockfish-163-ja -> src, until you find it and open it. The rest of the fields are optional, so skip them for now. Click on the "Configure UCI engine" button to see if it's loading correctly.

You should get a large window with dozens of obscure engine parameters. The default hash table size is rather small (32 MB) so bump that up to whatever you want. Hit the save button at the bottom, then hit OK on the previous window. Go back to the Analysis Engine List window, and its name should be there. Click on it and hit ok, and it should start analyzing.

Other engines on Linux sometimes come in pre-compiled executables like on Windows. For example, Spark and Komodo are closed source, so they will only be available as executables. There's one hitch when using them, however.

I've downloaded Spark 0.3a, and extracted it to my chess engines folder as well. The executable is just sitting there, but you can't install it in Scid just yet. Right click the executable (named spark-0.3-linux64 in my case), hit properties, and then the Permissions tab in the properties window. Check the "Allow executing file as program" box and then hit close. Alternatively, you could do the same thing in the command line by changing directory to Spark's folder, and typing the command

[code]
chmod +x spark-0.3-linux64[/code]

The chmod command [b]ch[/b]anges the [b]mod[/b]e of the executable to actually be executable (+x), i.e., since you just downloaded it, the file didn't have the correct permission to execute.

You can then install it into Scid much the same as you did Stockfish, making sure it runs correctly. I think that's it, but if something goes wrong or you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #25 - 03/18/10 at 16:05:42
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[quote author=5F65686D6064607B090 link=1262702059/23#23 date=1268839895]If I'm not mistaken, the version in the Ubuntu repository is the old version from 2004 when Shane stopped working on it. It would probably be better to install the new one you have downloaded. Go back to Synaptic, find Scid (I think it's version 3.6.1), and uncheck it to remove it.

I'll try to walk you through the process by memory. Take the downloaded file (scid-4.2.2.tar.bz2 at the Scid website) and extract it to a folder called 'scid' on your desktop or wherever you want to keep it. Read the README file in that folder. Click on Applications at the taskbar -> Accessories -> Terminal.

At the command line, paste the following command:

[code]sudo apt-get install tcl tcl8.5 tcl8.5-dev tk8.5 tk8.5-dev g++[/code]

If it says it can not get a lock, close Synaptic and try the command again. After all of that installs, type in the command line the following commands:

[code]
cd Desktop/scid (or wherever you extracted the folder)
./configure BINDIR=/usr/local/bin
make
sudo make install[/code]

The make process will take a while as it finishes compiling everything. Unfortunately, Scid doesn't install an icon into the menu, so if all of those commands run without a hitch, type "scid" into the command line next and it should start. If it goes wrong along the way, PM me at which step and I'll try to help.[/quote]

Thanks again Vladimir,

Scid seems to be working now, even though the 2nd part of the commands didn't work - probably because I run the swedish version of ubuntu. But I managed to get it installed eventually anyway :)

So all I need now is to find out how to compile & install all the engines I downloaded and how to associate them with scid?

Btw, is there a way to reuse what you've already typed in the terminal and just change the file name to install yet another engine?
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #24 - 03/17/10 at 15:40:25
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Wow, and here I've been using an obsolete version all this time.  Thanks for the word.
  

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Vladimir
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #23 - 03/17/10 at 15:31:35
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If I'm not mistaken, the version in the Ubuntu repository is the old version from 2004 when Shane stopped working on it. It would probably be better to install the new one you have downloaded. Go back to Synaptic, find Scid (I think it's version 3.6.1), and uncheck it to remove it.

I'll try to walk you through the process by memory. Take the downloaded file (scid-4.2.2.tar.bz2 at the Scid website) and extract it to a folder called 'scid' on your desktop or wherever you want to keep it. Read the README file in that folder. Click on Applications at the taskbar -> Accessories -> Terminal.

At the command line, paste the following command:

Code
Select All
sudo apt-get install tcl tcl8.5 tcl8.5-dev tk8.5 tk8.5-dev g++ 



If it says it can not get a lock, close Synaptic and try the command again. After all of that installs, type in the command line the following commands:

Code
Select All
cd Desktop/scid (or wherever you extracted the folder)
./configure BINDIR=/usr/local/bin
make
sudo make install 



The make process will take a while as it finishes compiling everything. Unfortunately, Scid doesn't install an icon into the menu, so if all of those commands run without a hitch, type "scid" into the command line next and it should start. If it goes wrong along the way, PM me at which step and I'll try to help.
  
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Markovich
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #22 - 03/17/10 at 13:12:38
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TalJechin wrote on 03/17/10 at 11:39:31:
Hmm, second stab got me running the basic ubuntu. According to the packethandler I've now installed scid but I can't find it in the list of programs, same with sudo.

Haven't figured out how to install or compile stuff I've downloaded (or even how to start the compiler at all) - think scid was installed by automatically downloading it again (but it seems to be an older version than the one I downloaded manually)

A pity they haven't copied one of the few things that are good about windows - a file called "install".

I'll have another crack at it tomorrow - when you start to get frustrated it time to pause..  Undecided


With Ubuntu I usually rely on the built-in Synaptic package manager.  You'll readily find scid, click to select it, click on "apply," and off you go.  I would never do a hand install of software available through Synaptic, which scid is.

DeepShredder12, now that I had to install by hand, but it was a piece of cake.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #21 - 03/17/10 at 13:07:45
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thibdb13 wrote on 03/17/10 at 12:20:30:
You can try the following (command line):
$ sudo apt-get update (to be sure your sources are up to date)
$ sudo apt-get upgrade (to upgrade your system to the newest packages)
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid (to install scid)
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid-rating-data
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid-spell-data
$ scid

By the way, you will not find sudo in the menus - it is to be used in a terminal.


Thanks, I'll try that tomorrow - if I can find the terminal / commandinterpreter or whatever it's called.

Btw, for downloaded stuff - is there any way of right-clicking it or something, that would make a compiler or terminal show up?
  
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thibdb13
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #20 - 03/17/10 at 12:20:30
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You can try the following (command line):
$ sudo apt-get update (to be sure your sources are up to date)
$ sudo apt-get upgrade (to upgrade your system to the newest packages)
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid (to install scid)
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid-rating-data
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid-spell-data
$ scid

By the way, you will not find sudo in the menus - it is to be used in a terminal.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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TalJechin
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #19 - 03/17/10 at 11:39:31
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Hmm, second stab got me running the basic ubuntu. According to the packethandler I've now installed scid but I can't find it in the list of programs, same with sudo.

Haven't figured out how to install or compile stuff I've downloaded (or even how to start the compiler at all) - think scid was installed by automatically downloading it again (but it seems to be an older version than the one I downloaded manually)

A pity they haven't copied one of the few things that are good about windows - a file called "install".

I'll have another crack at it tomorrow - when you start to get frustrated it time to pause..  Undecided
  
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thibdb13
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #18 - 03/17/10 at 08:16:04
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With Linux you can also have the choice of to which directory you will download files. it is just a question of configuration. Firefox is not the only browser, you can also use Opera, Konqueror, Epiphany, Dillo,...
Login: if you use the KDE or Gnome Desktop environement, then it is possible to have the same comfort as under Windows. And so, Xubuntu might not be the best choice for you. If you want to stick to Ubuntu, I'd then recommend the "real" Ubuntu or Kubuntu but this last is not so much appreciated by the "specialists".
You do not like to work with "root" and your own user? Then, you can use sudo which is installated by default on Ubuntu. Another possibility is to temporaly become root under your own user, this is possible with the "su" (superuser) command.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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TalJechin
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #17 - 03/16/10 at 22:17:56
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MartinC wrote on 03/16/10 at 11:14:43:
It looks like Xubuntu should have one? Certainly the main flavours of Ubuntu normally install graphically and then just run broadly like a windows setup.
(if better Wink)

Booting into the command line maybe suggests that something went wrong.


Many hours later it struck me that maybe it was asking for the log on password? though doing that via a DOS promt is hardly the way to win over users from windows..

Markovich wrote on 03/16/10 at 12:44:58:
TalJechin wrote on 03/15/10 at 19:52:27:
I'm also considering Ubuntu - if there is a free 64 bit version then why spend dough on Windows 7?!

What linux programs for chess should I install if the only purpose is to use it for analysis?

Is Scid the best for that or is there an alternative? How about setting up engine matches, shoot-outs and similar - is that possible in the Linux chess world too?

Is it easy to install engines in linux? One thing I didn't like with Linux last time I tried it, is that you don't get to choose to which folder you want to download stuff - so how do you find the files when installing?

Is there an easy to use compilator in the ubuntu basic installation? I've got the impression that many engines don't come compilated for ubuntu.


I have little doubt that Scid is the best chess database that runs on Linux.  Development is ongoing, and there is a very active list server to which I subscribe (the list concerns Scid in all its forms, not only on Linux).  I will vouch for DeepShredder12 and I assume plain Shredder12 would work fine as well.  I can't vouch for any other chess software.

While I love Linux and really hate Windows, there are of course many reasons to prefer Windows 7.  One is that it comes pre-installed; another is that if your focus is multi-media, there is a lot more software for Windows that Just Works.  While distros like Ubuntu try to take the work out of it, with Linux you sometimes have to spend time configuring.  If multimedia is not your thing, that is all the more reason to prefer Linux, which is free, can be installed to run just fine on small or obsolete machines, and unlike Windows, actually works. 

My pet complaint against windows is the perpetually rebooting that the system demands.  With Linux, the only time you need to reboot is when you've installed a new kernel.  Indeed, I keep my Linux machine on for weeks on end with absolutely no ill effects.  The only time I have to reboot is when I suffer a power failure.

Then there is that Windows is perpetually under attack by hackers, requiring everyone to run expensive and cpu-draining anti-intrusion software.  There is a threat to anyone connected to the internet, of course, but so far Linux has not been a target, partly because it's more difficult to take control of a moderately-well-defended Linux machine.

Then there is that Windows always wants the lion's share of your cpu for its d--m widgets, 3-D effects and whatnot.  With Linux if you want a minimalist window manager, you can have a nice interface that doesn't make any significant demands on your processors, saving them for your own work.

P.S. TalJechin: of course you get to choose where you download files.  This however is not an operating system property but a property of whatever software you use to download files.  If for example you use Firefox, my standard tool, you can change the download destination from the options menu.  This applies to Firefox both on Windows and Linux.  If you're using an ftp client, there too you have full control of where you download files.

Of course on Linux, which directories you can write to depends on your permissions.  You can read up on that in any good Linux book.  Normally I download to my home directory, which of course I have permission to write to. 


Well, a few years ago I had a friend who was a Linux-fanatic, so I had/have Red Hat on my oldest computer, though the only use I found for it was playing Sokoban.

In windows I'm of course using FireFox, but it always allows me to choose where to save every file I download. I can't imagine why one would want to save everything in the same folder...

The safety of linux is a good 'selling point' as well as it is not expecting to be online all the time like windows.

Though it's annoying having to log in first as user and then as root. Since I'm the only one using my computer, I'd rather be able to start at once.
  
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Markovich
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #16 - 03/16/10 at 12:44:58
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TalJechin wrote on 03/15/10 at 19:52:27:
I'm also considering Ubuntu - if there is a free 64 bit version then why spend dough on Windows 7?!

What linux programs for chess should I install if the only purpose is to use it for analysis?

Is Scid the best for that or is there an alternative? How about setting up engine matches, shoot-outs and similar - is that possible in the Linux chess world too?

Is it easy to install engines in linux? One thing I didn't like with Linux last time I tried it, is that you don't get to choose to which folder you want to download stuff - so how do you find the files when installing?

Is there an easy to use compilator in the ubuntu basic installation? I've got the impression that many engines don't come compilated for ubuntu.


I have little doubt that Scid is the best chess database that runs on Linux.  Development is ongoing, and there is a very active list server to which I subscribe (the list concerns Scid in all its forms, not only on Linux).  I will vouch for DeepShredder12 and I assume plain Shredder12 would work fine as well.  I can't vouch for any other chess software.

While I love Linux and really hate Windows, there are of course many reasons to prefer Windows 7.  One is that it comes pre-installed; another is that if your focus is multi-media, there is a lot more software for Windows that Just Works.  While distros like Ubuntu try to take the work out of it, with Linux you sometimes have to spend time configuring.  If multimedia is not your thing, that is all the more reason to prefer Linux, which is free, can be installed to run just fine on small or obsolete machines, and unlike Windows, actually works. 

My pet complaint against windows is the perpetually rebooting that the system demands.  With Linux, the only time you need to reboot is when you've installed a new kernel.  Indeed, I keep my Linux machine on for weeks on end with absolutely no ill effects.  The only time I have to reboot is when I suffer a power failure.

Then there is that Windows is perpetually under attack by hackers, requiring everyone to run expensive and cpu-draining anti-intrusion software.  There is a threat to anyone connected to the internet, of course, but so far Linux has not been a target, partly because it's more difficult to take control of a moderately-well-defended Linux machine.

Then there is that Windows always wants the lion's share of your cpu for its d--m widgets, 3-D effects and whatnot.  With Linux if you want a minimalist window manager, you can have a nice interface that doesn't make any significant demands on your processors, saving them for your own work.

P.S. TalJechin: of course you get to choose where you download files.  This however is not an operating system property but a property of whatever software you use to download files.  If for example you use Firefox, my standard tool, you can change the download destination from the options menu.  This applies to Firefox both on Windows and Linux.  If you're using an ftp client, there too you have full control of where you download files.

Of course on Linux, which directories you can write to depends on your permissions.  You can read up on that in any good Linux book.  Normally I download to my home directory, which of course I have permission to write to.
  

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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #15 - 03/16/10 at 11:14:43
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It looks like Xubuntu should have one? Certainly the main flavours of Ubuntu normally install graphically and then just run broadly like a windows setup.
(if better Wink)

Booting into the command line maybe suggests that something went wrong.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #14 - 03/16/10 at 10:57:19
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well, stab one failed  Sad

I chose Xubuntu since I liked the name, but when I rebooted I got stuck with a f*ing command line screen  Angry

Are there no versions with a graphical interface and if so - which is closest to "windows intuitive"?
  
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