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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) moving to Linux (Read 24388 times)
Jesse Gersenson
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #58 - 12/29/10 at 14:05:16
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Charles Allen wrote on 12/28/10 at 17:55:55:
...scid on Linux (etc.) has had this capability for quite awhile.

1. Make sure you can "ssh" in to the analysis computer from wherever.  I use passwordless logins (dsa public/private key pair), otherwise I think you'd need to embed the password in the Parameters field below, always a bad idea.

2. Make sure that whichever engine(s) you want to use on the analysis computer are installed (I use the standard Debian crafty and stockfish packages).

3. In the "Analysis Engine..." setup in scid, the fields will be (for example):

Name: remote-crafty
Command: ssh
Parameters: -q x.y.z.a crafty
...

where x.y.z.a is the IP name/address you use to ssh in to your analysis computer.


very nice.

followed chris's suggestion with the following commands.

from the weak computer's terminal, following this page
http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/152:
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ssh-keygen -t rsa

ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub username@44.22.33.22
 



then in scid add an engine, example stockfish-191-64-ja

Name: remote-stockfish
command: ssh
parameters: -q username@44.22.33.22 ./stockfish-191-64-ja

(make sure to put stockfish-191-64-ja on the server in user's home directory and make it executable!
chmod +x stockfish-191-64-ja

  
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Charles Allen
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #57 - 12/28/10 at 17:55:55
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Since using a remote Windows computer came up in another thread, I thought I'd take the opportunity to point out that scid on Linux (etc.) has had this capability for quite awhile.

1. Make sure you can "ssh" in to the analysis computer from wherever.  I use passwordless logins (dsa public/private key pair), otherwise I think you'd need to embed the password in the Parameters field below, always a bad idea.

2. Make sure that whichever engine(s) you want to use on the analysis computer are installed (I use the standard Debian crafty and stockfish packages).

3. In the "Analysis Engine..." setup in scid, the fields will be (for example):

Name: remote-crafty
Command: ssh
Parameters: -q x.y.z.a crafty
...

where x.y.z.a is the IP name/address you use to ssh in to your analysis computer.
  
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Jesse Gersenson
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #56 - 12/19/10 at 22:29:33
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Wine 1.3.9 is now out.

Sabayon Linux, OpenSUSE (maybe others) support 32-bit/64-bit wine - just install wine via their package managers and you can run 64-bit .exe engines from within programs such as arena.

In Ubuntu and Xubuntu 10.10 I wrote a script to automate the process installing/compiling 32-bit/64-bit wine. script is here:
http://www.jesseo.com/chess/64-bit-wine-ubuntu.sh

discussion at rybka forum:
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=19784
  
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Jesse Gersenson
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #55 - 09/23/10 at 09:20:38
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Scid uses just one of my i3 machine's 4 threads. Any way to get it to use all 4?

When working with large databases 'top' shows just one processor being used by tkscid and it's using 100%.
  
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Charles Allen
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #54 - 09/19/10 at 15:51:41
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Quote:
So the gui version seems to be better than the cmd version of the pgn->scid-converter.


Using 4.2.2 in Debian the command line pgnscid works just fine on files that I've previously pruned and cleaned via pgn-extract (I do this every month or so after downloading the latest TWIC files).  When you add a game via the gui, it will have already cleaned up extraneous text, etc.

The pgn-extract can be somewhat complex, but in its simplest form it just cleans things up.  I see that Ubuntu has a pgn-extract package, give it a whirl.
  
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battleangel
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #53 - 09/19/10 at 09:01:45
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o.k., thanks for the hint. I made a new scid db and imported the pgn-file and it worked. So the gui version seems to be better than the cmd version of the pgn->scid-converter.

Markovich wrote on 09/18/10 at 19:25:16:
Are you using the latest stable version of Scid?  I'm using 4.2.2, which I believe is the latest.  I don't know what pgnscid is, I just click on Tools, Import One Pgn Game or Import File of PGN Games.  It works fine.

  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #52 - 09/18/10 at 20:24:15
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I've moved to Linux this summer and I'm very happy. I don't miss (almost) anything.

As for chess, Scid has everything I need: I open my main database as a tree to compare the new games with it and Stockfish to analyse positions.

My only concern is that BlitzIn is slightly less responsive under Wine than it was on Windows, which makes me lose some games on time. (5 min games, I don't play 1 min ones). Maybe I should stick to 15 0, which is indeed better for my chess...

  
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Markovich
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #51 - 09/18/10 at 19:25:16
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Are you using the latest stable version of Scid?  I'm using 4.2.2, which I believe is the latest.  I don't know what pgnscid is, I just click on Tools, Import One Pgn Game or Import File of PGN Games.  It works fine.
  

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battleangel
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #50 - 09/18/10 at 10:14:33
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I have some problems with databases ...
scid works fine using ubuntu, but pgnscid does not work for converting a pgn into scid-file ... always "segmentation fault" comes up (hey I know this error when I have done something wrong in my c source code) ...  and trying out Jose, which is java, the program starts fine and everything seems to work, but when trying to open a pgn file it crashes ... I tried out numerous pgn files and it just doesn't work Sad

but on topic:
From my previous OS X experience I know Jin is a good client for chess on the internet, which is also avaible for linux ... and the chess engine stockfish is probably the strongest free engine ...
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #49 - 06/25/10 at 11:19:11
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Markovich wrote on 06/24/10 at 17:57:58:
I already noticed that using the native Java interface, DeepShredder12 would freeze up when backing up if the clicks were made too fast.  But it's nothing major.

Do you think it would work better with openjdk?
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #48 - 06/24/10 at 17:57:58
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thibdb13 wrote on 06/24/10 at 15:18:52:
How did you do? Simply by adding Shredder to the list of engine's? (are you using a 32-bit or a 64-bit version?)


64 bit.

You have to specify the directory in which to run, which should be one to which you have permission to write, and you also have to specify the shell command to start the engine.  Finally you have to check the UCI box and fill in the UCI specification.  The default is one thread and 64 Kb of hash space; on my machine, I use eight threads and 8 Mb of hash.  There are several other UCI options you can specify, but I let those default.

It runs like a charm, with the minor glich that if I back up too fast, the engine sometimes crashes.  I already noticed that using the native Java interface, DeepShredder12 would freeze up when backing up if the clicks were made too fast.  But it's nothing major.
  

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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #47 - 06/24/10 at 15:18:52
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How did you do? Simply by adding Shredder to the list of engine's? (are you using a 32-bit or a 64-bit version?)
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Markovich
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #46 - 06/24/10 at 13:43:53
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I got DeepShredder12 working in Scid.  Super duper.
  

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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #45 - 06/22/10 at 20:24:43
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I just de-installed Ubuntu's version of Scid and installed using the latest source code for Linux.  Everything works fine and it's much nicer, not surprisingly, I suppose, given that the source code is the latest and greatest.  The interface is much nicer now, with tabbed subwindows replacing all those separate windows produced by the old version that I was using.  Next challenge, making it work with DeepShredder12.
  

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Jesse Gersenson
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #44 - 06/10/10 at 10:43:11
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under Wine-1.1.44
playchess.exe (version Nov 28 2005) WORKS
playchess.exe (version 5) BROKEN
Cblite 2009 WORKS
  
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Jesse Gersenson
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #43 - 03/28/10 at 09:35:19
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Vladimir wrote on 03/28/10 at 00:39:02:
Did you set the engine to be executable as I said in this post?


No, I hadn't. They're working now!?

@ TalJechin
You must have downloaded the 'Alternate' version of Ubuntu, it installs via the command-line. That's a shame, the normal version of ubuntu is very graphical. Try again, just burn the iso, i posted above, to a cd and them pop it into windows.

@ Smyslov_Fan:
Thanks for keeping this thread where it is. I'm finally able to do all my chess analysis completely in linux!

  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #42 - 03/28/10 at 00:39:02
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Jesse Gersenson wrote on 03/27/10 at 19:24:36:
Vladimir, your make instructions got robbolito working. thanks.

there are a number of chess engines for linux but is there another trick for getting them to work in, say, scid? with some engines the make command has worked. with others, i didn't even need the make command, and still with others, such as

doch32-134-ja
komodo-10-32-ja

i can't them working.




Did you set the engine to be executable as I said in this post? Sometimes I forget to do so and then slap myself after twenty minutes of fruitless tinkering.

Vladimir wrote on 03/18/10 at 19:32:53:
Other engines on Linux sometimes come in pre-compiled executables like on Windows. For example, Spark and Komodo are closed source, so they will only be available as executables. There's one hitch when using them, however.

I've downloaded Spark 0.3a, and extracted it to my chess engines folder as well. The executable is just sitting there, but you can't install it in Scid just yet. Right click the executable (named spark-0.3-linux64 in my case), hit properties, and then the Permissions tab in the properties window. Check the "Allow executing file as program" box and then hit close. Alternatively, you could do the same thing in the command line by changing directory to Spark's folder, and typing the command

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chmod +x spark-0.3-linux64 



The chmod command changes the mode of the executable to actually be executable (+x), i.e., since you just downloaded it, the file didn't have the correct permission to execute.

You can then install it into Scid much the same as you did Stockfish, making sure it runs correctly. I think that's it, but if something goes wrong or you have any more questions, feel free to ask.


I don't want to incite a flame war, but I do want to say a few things. As for the difficulty in using Linux, I'll agree it has a few rough edges and needs a little computer savvy. However, I think many of the complaints are from people who tried it expecting a drop-in replacement for Windows. It just works differently, which is neither good nor bad, and necessarily requires learning. I guess that leads to teething pains, but it's rewarding to persevere.

As an aside, a whole lot of things don't need to be done at the command line. Doing so is only for convenience, i.e., it's easier for someone to tell you a command to copy and paste than to write what menus to navigate through to get to the button you need to press.

Chess is fine on Linux. Really, the only things that most people miss on Linux are video games, some crucial propietary software (Photoshop, AutoCAD, Chessbase, etc.) that they may need for their jobs, and anti-virus software. Well, maybe not that last one. For most things there aren't suitable replacements for (such as GIMP, OpenOffice, Scid), there's Wine.

Essentially, like everything else, what you want out of it depends on what you want to put into it.
  
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Jesse Gersenson
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #41 - 03/27/10 at 19:24:36
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Vladimir, your make instructions got robbolito working. thanks.

there are a number of chess engines for linux but is there another trick for getting them to work in, say, scid? with some engines the make command has worked. with others, i didn't even need the make command, and still with others, such as

doch32-134-ja
komodo-10-32-ja

i can't them working.


  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #40 - 03/26/10 at 11:41:05
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If there was a truly graphical ubuntu version that could be installed via wubi instead of via a cd/dvd I might still give it a go sometime in the future. I think there was one version called Mandrake that was supposed to be graphical?

But at the moment it feels like too much hassle for too little reward...
  
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Jesse Gersenson
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #39 - 03/26/10 at 08:01:28
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Alternatively, if you want to tell your computer what to do, and not have it tell you what you can't do - give linux a try.

there are a lot of versions of gnu/linux. ubuntu is most similar to windows xp.

@Willempie
Bxh7+!
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #38 - 03/25/10 at 21:12:25
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tbh. someone who can really use linux probably has the qualification to work in the it industry, so if you are not a "computer enthusiast", don't use linux.
If you want an alternative use mac os, and dual boot windows or run windows virtually with chessbase products. Sorry to say so, but from a user perspective, and especially from a chess perspective, linux is not really good. Maybe you can start up eclipse and maybe openoffice and firefox for some deskjobs, but for a private user who wants to have some multimedia stuff and be entertained linux is not really the way to go.
So don't waste your time with linux.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #37 - 03/23/10 at 10:12:18
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BlkSabb wrote on 03/16/10 at 00:22:35:
You might want to download winetools.  It lets you automatically download and install some of the Windows components that are required for Chessbase to run properly like Windows Media Player and DirectX.  Playchess is working for me.


Playchess is working? Last time I tried it, it didn't work. Any idea which version of wine are you using?

Vladimir/ Markovich
How do I get Robolitto to run on Linux? I download the rar file, than what?

With .exe engines, I just add them to arena. With the linux engines, I don't know what interface to use and how to do it. have tried eboard without luck.

engine matches
in arena (which is run under wine) this is simple. just as easy as with fritz/chessbase.
  
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Jesse Gersenson
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #36 - 03/23/10 at 10:00:58
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I use the following:

operating system: xubuntu 9.04
chess interface: playwitharena.com
chess engine: rybka 3

other chess programs i run via virtualbox which runs windows xp:
from virtualbox / xp
- playchess
- chessbase
- ct art

to duplicate this set up you'd do something like the following:

1. download xubuntu
32 bit http://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/xubuntu/releases/karmic/release/xubuntu-9.10...

64 bit
http://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/xubuntu/releases/karmic/release/xubuntu-9.10...

2. burn this ISO file to a cd
3. reboot computer with cd inserted and install xubuntu

4. add/install the following programs (Applications > Add / Remove) ... first change the drop down box from "Show: Canonical-maintained applications" to "All available applications" then search for and checkmark the following applications

- wine
- virtualbox ose
- xubuntu restricted extras
- icedtea (optional)
- vlc media player (optional)
- ark (optional)
- open office

5. download and install arena
http://www.playwitharena.de/download/arena_201_setup.exe

6. add your engine to arena

7. start virtualbox (Applications > Accessories > Virtualbox) and install XP there

  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #35 - 03/21/10 at 02:40:25
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TalJechin wrote on 03/20/10 at 19:24:40:
I found another program, Jose, that looked exactly like I'd want a chess program to look - but when trying to install it, I noticed a line that it's java based and "only works with 32bit, 64 crashes it."

So I'll  just scrap the whole linux idea and make Bill Gates a tiny bit richer...


Alright. That is indeed fair enough.

Sometimes you just have to go with what you know, and making a full transition is an investment in and of itself.  Smiley
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #34 - 03/20/10 at 19:24:40
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I found another program, Jose, that looked exactly like I'd want a chess program to look - but when trying to install it, I noticed a line that it's java based and "only works with 32bit, 64 crashes it."

So I'll  just scrap the whole linux idea and make Bill Gates a tiny bit richer...
  
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TalJechin
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #33 - 03/20/10 at 18:40:14
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Vladimir wrote on 03/19/10 at 22:42:41:
TalJechin wrote on 03/19/10 at 22:27:02:
Well, I've followed the instructions but the engines I install crash when I start them. Can't find "Configure UCI engine" but maybe it's because it's spark.exe and not a UCI?

Would I need to find Scid's engine folder and copy the exe-files there?


Ah, .exe files are Windows-only executables. You'll have to redownload the Linux version from the Spark website.

Also, just to be sure, open up Scid again, go to the help menu, click About, and see what version you're running. The old 3.6.1 version may not have the UCI engine configuration window.

The reference picture from the Scid website for the Analysis Engine windows: http://scid.sourceforge.net/screenshots/uci.png


Hmm, strange - the Scid version is indeed 3.6.1 but I'm sure I downloaded and installed the latest file. Maybe it's simply not updated?

Btw, I noticed that there's another program called ChessDB which is based on the SCID code - is there any reason not to use this instead?

Btw2, the Spark engine is the 64 bit linux version, I just didn't know what to call a program in linux...
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #32 - 03/20/10 at 05:15:01
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I'm going to leave it in the General Chess column for now because it's an issue that is legitimately interesting to almost all members of the chess pub community.  The Linux discussion is, in my mind, directly tied to using chess computers.  At least in this venue.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #31 - 03/19/10 at 23:18:18
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Vladimir wrote on 03/19/10 at 22:58:33:
Ah, I'm sorry. We got sort of far afield, but we're talking about chess now, I swear!  Wink

I guess what I want to say is that in trying out Linux, you have to disentangle yourself from a lot of ingrained Windows notions you may not have even realized you had (e.g., .exe files being executables). I think we're in the middle of that troubleshooting process, although we can take it to PMs if the mods want.

No, by all means go ahead. Just make sure you put in Bxh7+! at some point Wink

And you are right that that is one of the problems, one other being that most people only use their computers to run certain programs and nothing else. So they are not bothered about the niceties of the installation itself(with windows it is next,next,finish).

PS I am not a mod in this section and I dont have a problem with such discussions at all. It was more of a lame attempt to point out the inconsistencies with remarks made in a thread in the chitchat sections (not by you btw).
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #30 - 03/19/10 at 22:58:33
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Willempie wrote on 03/19/10 at 22:45:35:
Not wanting to be a spoil-sport, but shouldnt this be in the chit chat or is this subject not weird enough? Grin

I will just add tha when using Linux you have to know a little what you are doing, in particular the free ones. It isnt for fun that companies pay for using Linux.
In this particular instance I am also not of much assistance I am afraid. Though to me it seems you and Vladimir are talking slightly different things.


Ah, I'm sorry. We got sort of far afield, but we're talking about chess now, I swear!  Wink

I guess what I want to say is that in trying out Linux, you have to disentangle yourself from a lot of ingrained Windows notions you may not have even realized you had (e.g., .exe files being executables). I think we're in the middle of that troubleshooting process, although we can take it to PMs if the mods want.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #29 - 03/19/10 at 22:45:35
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Not wanting to be a spoil-sport, but shouldnt this be in the chit chat or is this subject not weird enough? Grin

I will just add tha when using Linux you have to know a little what you are doing, in particular the free ones. It isnt for fun that companies pay for using Linux.
In this particular instance I am also not of much assistance I am afraid. Though to me it seems you and Vladimir are talking slightly different things.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #28 - 03/19/10 at 22:42:41
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TalJechin wrote on 03/19/10 at 22:27:02:
Well, I've followed the instructions but the engines I install crash when I start them. Can't find "Configure UCI engine" but maybe it's because it's spark.exe and not a UCI?

Would I need to find Scid's engine folder and copy the exe-files there?


Ah, .exe files are Windows-only executables. You'll have to redownload the Linux version from the Spark website.

Also, just to be sure, open up Scid again, go to the help menu, click About, and see what version you're running. The old 3.6.1 version may not have the UCI engine configuration window.

The reference picture from the Scid website for the Analysis Engine windows: http://scid.sourceforge.net/screenshots/uci.png
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #27 - 03/19/10 at 22:27:02
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Well, I've followed the instructions but the engines I install crash when I start them. Can't find "Configure UCI engine" but maybe it's because it's spark.exe and not a UCI?

Would I need to find Scid's engine folder and copy the exe-files there?
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #26 - 03/18/10 at 19:32:53
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[quote author=6C5954725D5B505156380 link=1262702059/25#25 date=1268928342]
So all I need now is to find out how to compile & install all the engines I downloaded and how to associate them with scid?

Btw, is there a way to reuse what you've already typed in the terminal and just change the file name to install yet another engine?[/quote]

Sure. To reuse commands in the command line, hit the up arrow key on your keyboard to scroll through the command history. Another tip is to hit the Tab key at the command line to auto-complete folder and file names, e.g., you start typing the first few letters of a folder to distinguish it from the rest, then hit Tab and it'll fill in the rest.

As for your question, some engines come in pre-compiled executables like on Windows, but I'll explain that afterwards.

For example, I had downloaded the latest Stockfish, 1.6.3. I extracted it to a folder in my home folder. /home/vlad/Chess/Engines/stockfish-163-ja

There is a subfolder in there called "src" where the source code is. Go to a terminal, and navigate to that folder using the [b]c[/b]hange [b]d[/b]irectory command (cd):

[code]
cd Chess/Engines/stockfish-163-ja/src
make[/code]

If you get lost in the directory structure, the [b]ls[/b] command will list what files are in the current folder so that you can find what you're looking for. If you enter a folder but want to go back a level, type "[b]cd ..[/b]"

After typing "make," the engine should start compiling. Once it's finished compiling, there should be a new file named "stockfish" among all the other files of code in that folder. For compiling these engines, don't type "make install" afterwards.

Next, open up Scid by typing "scid&" in the command line. The ampersand runs it in the background so that you can keep typing commands. In Scid, go to Tools -> Analysis Engine... In the window that opens, hit New. In the new window that opens, type what you want the name of the engine to be in the name field (Stockfish 1.6.3 64bit or so). In the Command field, hit the ... button and navigate through your folders for the executable, Chess -> Engines -> stockfish-163-ja -> src, until you find it and open it. The rest of the fields are optional, so skip them for now. Click on the "Configure UCI engine" button to see if it's loading correctly.

You should get a large window with dozens of obscure engine parameters. The default hash table size is rather small (32 MB) so bump that up to whatever you want. Hit the save button at the bottom, then hit OK on the previous window. Go back to the Analysis Engine List window, and its name should be there. Click on it and hit ok, and it should start analyzing.

Other engines on Linux sometimes come in pre-compiled executables like on Windows. For example, Spark and Komodo are closed source, so they will only be available as executables. There's one hitch when using them, however.

I've downloaded Spark 0.3a, and extracted it to my chess engines folder as well. The executable is just sitting there, but you can't install it in Scid just yet. Right click the executable (named spark-0.3-linux64 in my case), hit properties, and then the Permissions tab in the properties window. Check the "Allow executing file as program" box and then hit close. Alternatively, you could do the same thing in the command line by changing directory to Spark's folder, and typing the command

[code]
chmod +x spark-0.3-linux64[/code]

The chmod command [b]ch[/b]anges the [b]mod[/b]e of the executable to actually be executable (+x), i.e., since you just downloaded it, the file didn't have the correct permission to execute.

You can then install it into Scid much the same as you did Stockfish, making sure it runs correctly. I think that's it, but if something goes wrong or you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #25 - 03/18/10 at 16:05:42
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[quote author=5F65686D6064607B090 link=1262702059/23#23 date=1268839895]If I'm not mistaken, the version in the Ubuntu repository is the old version from 2004 when Shane stopped working on it. It would probably be better to install the new one you have downloaded. Go back to Synaptic, find Scid (I think it's version 3.6.1), and uncheck it to remove it.

I'll try to walk you through the process by memory. Take the downloaded file (scid-4.2.2.tar.bz2 at the Scid website) and extract it to a folder called 'scid' on your desktop or wherever you want to keep it. Read the README file in that folder. Click on Applications at the taskbar -> Accessories -> Terminal.

At the command line, paste the following command:

[code]sudo apt-get install tcl tcl8.5 tcl8.5-dev tk8.5 tk8.5-dev g++[/code]

If it says it can not get a lock, close Synaptic and try the command again. After all of that installs, type in the command line the following commands:

[code]
cd Desktop/scid (or wherever you extracted the folder)
./configure BINDIR=/usr/local/bin
make
sudo make install[/code]

The make process will take a while as it finishes compiling everything. Unfortunately, Scid doesn't install an icon into the menu, so if all of those commands run without a hitch, type "scid" into the command line next and it should start. If it goes wrong along the way, PM me at which step and I'll try to help.[/quote]

Thanks again Vladimir,

Scid seems to be working now, even though the 2nd part of the commands didn't work - probably because I run the swedish version of ubuntu. But I managed to get it installed eventually anyway :)

So all I need now is to find out how to compile & install all the engines I downloaded and how to associate them with scid?

Btw, is there a way to reuse what you've already typed in the terminal and just change the file name to install yet another engine?
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #24 - 03/17/10 at 15:40:25
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Wow, and here I've been using an obsolete version all this time.  Thanks for the word.
  

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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #23 - 03/17/10 at 15:31:35
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If I'm not mistaken, the version in the Ubuntu repository is the old version from 2004 when Shane stopped working on it. It would probably be better to install the new one you have downloaded. Go back to Synaptic, find Scid (I think it's version 3.6.1), and uncheck it to remove it.

I'll try to walk you through the process by memory. Take the downloaded file (scid-4.2.2.tar.bz2 at the Scid website) and extract it to a folder called 'scid' on your desktop or wherever you want to keep it. Read the README file in that folder. Click on Applications at the taskbar -> Accessories -> Terminal.

At the command line, paste the following command:

Code
Select All
sudo apt-get install tcl tcl8.5 tcl8.5-dev tk8.5 tk8.5-dev g++ 



If it says it can not get a lock, close Synaptic and try the command again. After all of that installs, type in the command line the following commands:

Code
Select All
cd Desktop/scid (or wherever you extracted the folder)
./configure BINDIR=/usr/local/bin
make
sudo make install 



The make process will take a while as it finishes compiling everything. Unfortunately, Scid doesn't install an icon into the menu, so if all of those commands run without a hitch, type "scid" into the command line next and it should start. If it goes wrong along the way, PM me at which step and I'll try to help.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #22 - 03/17/10 at 13:12:38
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TalJechin wrote on 03/17/10 at 11:39:31:
Hmm, second stab got me running the basic ubuntu. According to the packethandler I've now installed scid but I can't find it in the list of programs, same with sudo.

Haven't figured out how to install or compile stuff I've downloaded (or even how to start the compiler at all) - think scid was installed by automatically downloading it again (but it seems to be an older version than the one I downloaded manually)

A pity they haven't copied one of the few things that are good about windows - a file called "install".

I'll have another crack at it tomorrow - when you start to get frustrated it time to pause..  Undecided


With Ubuntu I usually rely on the built-in Synaptic package manager.  You'll readily find scid, click to select it, click on "apply," and off you go.  I would never do a hand install of software available through Synaptic, which scid is.

DeepShredder12, now that I had to install by hand, but it was a piece of cake.
  

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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #21 - 03/17/10 at 13:07:45
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thibdb13 wrote on 03/17/10 at 12:20:30:
You can try the following (command line):
$ sudo apt-get update (to be sure your sources are up to date)
$ sudo apt-get upgrade (to upgrade your system to the newest packages)
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid (to install scid)
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid-rating-data
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid-spell-data
$ scid

By the way, you will not find sudo in the menus - it is to be used in a terminal.


Thanks, I'll try that tomorrow - if I can find the terminal / commandinterpreter or whatever it's called.

Btw, for downloaded stuff - is there any way of right-clicking it or something, that would make a compiler or terminal show up?
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #20 - 03/17/10 at 12:20:30
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You can try the following (command line):
$ sudo apt-get update (to be sure your sources are up to date)
$ sudo apt-get upgrade (to upgrade your system to the newest packages)
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid (to install scid)
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid-rating-data
$ sudo apt-get -f install scid-spell-data
$ scid

By the way, you will not find sudo in the menus - it is to be used in a terminal.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #19 - 03/17/10 at 11:39:31
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Hmm, second stab got me running the basic ubuntu. According to the packethandler I've now installed scid but I can't find it in the list of programs, same with sudo.

Haven't figured out how to install or compile stuff I've downloaded (or even how to start the compiler at all) - think scid was installed by automatically downloading it again (but it seems to be an older version than the one I downloaded manually)

A pity they haven't copied one of the few things that are good about windows - a file called "install".

I'll have another crack at it tomorrow - when you start to get frustrated it time to pause..  Undecided
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #18 - 03/17/10 at 08:16:04
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With Linux you can also have the choice of to which directory you will download files. it is just a question of configuration. Firefox is not the only browser, you can also use Opera, Konqueror, Epiphany, Dillo,...
Login: if you use the KDE or Gnome Desktop environement, then it is possible to have the same comfort as under Windows. And so, Xubuntu might not be the best choice for you. If you want to stick to Ubuntu, I'd then recommend the "real" Ubuntu or Kubuntu but this last is not so much appreciated by the "specialists".
You do not like to work with "root" and your own user? Then, you can use sudo which is installated by default on Ubuntu. Another possibility is to temporaly become root under your own user, this is possible with the "su" (superuser) command.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #17 - 03/16/10 at 22:17:56
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MartinC wrote on 03/16/10 at 11:14:43:
It looks like Xubuntu should have one? Certainly the main flavours of Ubuntu normally install graphically and then just run broadly like a windows setup.
(if better Wink)

Booting into the command line maybe suggests that something went wrong.


Many hours later it struck me that maybe it was asking for the log on password? though doing that via a DOS promt is hardly the way to win over users from windows..

Markovich wrote on 03/16/10 at 12:44:58:
TalJechin wrote on 03/15/10 at 19:52:27:
I'm also considering Ubuntu - if there is a free 64 bit version then why spend dough on Windows 7?!

What linux programs for chess should I install if the only purpose is to use it for analysis?

Is Scid the best for that or is there an alternative? How about setting up engine matches, shoot-outs and similar - is that possible in the Linux chess world too?

Is it easy to install engines in linux? One thing I didn't like with Linux last time I tried it, is that you don't get to choose to which folder you want to download stuff - so how do you find the files when installing?

Is there an easy to use compilator in the ubuntu basic installation? I've got the impression that many engines don't come compilated for ubuntu.


I have little doubt that Scid is the best chess database that runs on Linux.  Development is ongoing, and there is a very active list server to which I subscribe (the list concerns Scid in all its forms, not only on Linux).  I will vouch for DeepShredder12 and I assume plain Shredder12 would work fine as well.  I can't vouch for any other chess software.

While I love Linux and really hate Windows, there are of course many reasons to prefer Windows 7.  One is that it comes pre-installed; another is that if your focus is multi-media, there is a lot more software for Windows that Just Works.  While distros like Ubuntu try to take the work out of it, with Linux you sometimes have to spend time configuring.  If multimedia is not your thing, that is all the more reason to prefer Linux, which is free, can be installed to run just fine on small or obsolete machines, and unlike Windows, actually works. 

My pet complaint against windows is the perpetually rebooting that the system demands.  With Linux, the only time you need to reboot is when you've installed a new kernel.  Indeed, I keep my Linux machine on for weeks on end with absolutely no ill effects.  The only time I have to reboot is when I suffer a power failure.

Then there is that Windows is perpetually under attack by hackers, requiring everyone to run expensive and cpu-draining anti-intrusion software.  There is a threat to anyone connected to the internet, of course, but so far Linux has not been a target, partly because it's more difficult to take control of a moderately-well-defended Linux machine.

Then there is that Windows always wants the lion's share of your cpu for its d--m widgets, 3-D effects and whatnot.  With Linux if you want a minimalist window manager, you can have a nice interface that doesn't make any significant demands on your processors, saving them for your own work.

P.S. TalJechin: of course you get to choose where you download files.  This however is not an operating system property but a property of whatever software you use to download files.  If for example you use Firefox, my standard tool, you can change the download destination from the options menu.  This applies to Firefox both on Windows and Linux.  If you're using an ftp client, there too you have full control of where you download files.

Of course on Linux, which directories you can write to depends on your permissions.  You can read up on that in any good Linux book.  Normally I download to my home directory, which of course I have permission to write to. 


Well, a few years ago I had a friend who was a Linux-fanatic, so I had/have Red Hat on my oldest computer, though the only use I found for it was playing Sokoban.

In windows I'm of course using FireFox, but it always allows me to choose where to save every file I download. I can't imagine why one would want to save everything in the same folder...

The safety of linux is a good 'selling point' as well as it is not expecting to be online all the time like windows.

Though it's annoying having to log in first as user and then as root. Since I'm the only one using my computer, I'd rather be able to start at once.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #16 - 03/16/10 at 12:44:58
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TalJechin wrote on 03/15/10 at 19:52:27:
I'm also considering Ubuntu - if there is a free 64 bit version then why spend dough on Windows 7?!

What linux programs for chess should I install if the only purpose is to use it for analysis?

Is Scid the best for that or is there an alternative? How about setting up engine matches, shoot-outs and similar - is that possible in the Linux chess world too?

Is it easy to install engines in linux? One thing I didn't like with Linux last time I tried it, is that you don't get to choose to which folder you want to download stuff - so how do you find the files when installing?

Is there an easy to use compilator in the ubuntu basic installation? I've got the impression that many engines don't come compilated for ubuntu.


I have little doubt that Scid is the best chess database that runs on Linux.  Development is ongoing, and there is a very active list server to which I subscribe (the list concerns Scid in all its forms, not only on Linux).  I will vouch for DeepShredder12 and I assume plain Shredder12 would work fine as well.  I can't vouch for any other chess software.

While I love Linux and really hate Windows, there are of course many reasons to prefer Windows 7.  One is that it comes pre-installed; another is that if your focus is multi-media, there is a lot more software for Windows that Just Works.  While distros like Ubuntu try to take the work out of it, with Linux you sometimes have to spend time configuring.  If multimedia is not your thing, that is all the more reason to prefer Linux, which is free, can be installed to run just fine on small or obsolete machines, and unlike Windows, actually works. 

My pet complaint against windows is the perpetually rebooting that the system demands.  With Linux, the only time you need to reboot is when you've installed a new kernel.  Indeed, I keep my Linux machine on for weeks on end with absolutely no ill effects.  The only time I have to reboot is when I suffer a power failure.

Then there is that Windows is perpetually under attack by hackers, requiring everyone to run expensive and cpu-draining anti-intrusion software.  There is a threat to anyone connected to the internet, of course, but so far Linux has not been a target, partly because it's more difficult to take control of a moderately-well-defended Linux machine.

Then there is that Windows always wants the lion's share of your cpu for its d--m widgets, 3-D effects and whatnot.  With Linux if you want a minimalist window manager, you can have a nice interface that doesn't make any significant demands on your processors, saving them for your own work.

P.S. TalJechin: of course you get to choose where you download files.  This however is not an operating system property but a property of whatever software you use to download files.  If for example you use Firefox, my standard tool, you can change the download destination from the options menu.  This applies to Firefox both on Windows and Linux.  If you're using an ftp client, there too you have full control of where you download files.

Of course on Linux, which directories you can write to depends on your permissions.  You can read up on that in any good Linux book.  Normally I download to my home directory, which of course I have permission to write to.
  

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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #15 - 03/16/10 at 11:14:43
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It looks like Xubuntu should have one? Certainly the main flavours of Ubuntu normally install graphically and then just run broadly like a windows setup.
(if better Wink)

Booting into the command line maybe suggests that something went wrong.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #14 - 03/16/10 at 10:57:19
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well, stab one failed  Sad

I chose Xubuntu since I liked the name, but when I rebooted I got stuck with a f*ing command line screen  Angry

Are there no versions with a graphical interface and if so - which is closest to "windows intuitive"?
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #13 - 03/16/10 at 07:04:36
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TalJechin wrote on 03/15/10 at 19:52:27:
I'm also considering Ubuntu - if there is a free 64 bit version then why spend dough on Windows 7?!

What linux programs for chess should I install if the only purpose is to use it for analysis?

Is Scid the best for that or is there an alternative? How about setting up engine matches, shoot-outs and similar - is that possible in the Linux chess world too?

Is it easy to install engines in linux? One thing I didn't like with Linux last time I tried it, is that you don't get to choose to which folder you want to download stuff - so how do you find the files when installing?

Is there an easy to use compilator in the ubuntu basic installation? I've got the impression that many engines don't come compilated for ubuntu.

I don't know whether scid is the best or not but I am quite happy with it in combination with the fruit engine.

Easy to install? It depends on your knwoledge of Linux. I am using ArchLinux x86_64 (http://www.archlinux.org/) and I had no problem installing scid (http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?O=0&K=scid&do_Search=Go) and fruit (http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?O=0&K=fruit&do_Search=Go) from the AUR  repository.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #12 - 03/16/10 at 00:22:35
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You might want to download winetools.  It lets you automatically download and install some of the Windows components that are required for Chessbase to run properly like Windows Media Player and DirectX.  Playchess is working for me.  So are videos.  The problem is that it crashes a lot so save your work regularly.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #11 - 03/15/10 at 23:56:53
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Thanks a lot Vladimir, I'll take a stab at installing wubi and scid etc, tomorrow morning! :)
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #10 - 03/15/10 at 23:29:39
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Hi again, TalJechin.

One thing I tell people thinking about experimenting with Linux is that there's no reason not to try it because experimenting with it is so easy.

Check out Wubi. It lets you install a partition of Ubuntu under Windows as if it were any other program, and uninstalls like any other program as well. It automatically sets up the boot manager for a dual boot without your having to hassle with partitioning your hard drive, which is easy but potentially confusing for people that just want to try it out.

One great feature is that if your processor is 64-bit but you only have a 32-bit version of Windows, the Ubuntu you install will support 64-bit anyway.

There are a couple of limitations, of course. First, unless they've fixed it recently, you won't be able to set your computer to hibernate. Also, the partition of Ubuntu resides as a very large file in your Windows file system, meaning that Ubuntu will slow down as your Windows file system becomes very fragmented. If you notice any slowdowns, just run the defrag under Windows and you should probably be good to go. Small price to pay for the convenience, however. If you want to completely migrate to Ubuntu, or even a standard dual-boot setup, the transition is easy. Just remember to always back up your files.

As for chess programs, the ones mentioned in this thread are a good start. I haven't tried any of the Chessbase products under Wine, but Scid is excellent in my experience.

Engine matches require a small amount of fiddling. They aren't as push-button as under Fritz. You'll want to look into the recently updated XBoard which may not have made it into the repositories, I haven't checked. It supports many new features for chess engines and matches. If you're really serious, there's another program called Cutechess which you run from the command line. It supports super-fast time controls for engines, such as game in 10 seconds with a 0.1 second increment. These games are useful for chess engine programmers, as they get reliable results of their engine changes very quickly. This may not interest you, of course, but I'll throw it out there.

Installing engines didn't seem any more or less difficult for me than under Windows. The folder hierarchy is easy to understand. For example, you have a /home folder for all of your personal stuff, while all of the system files are elsewhere. Download a file to your desktop, extract it to /home/Chess/Engines, for example, compile it if need be, and then install it under Scid.

Compiling most programs isn't very difficult once you get the hang of it. It's usually just a two or three step process from the command line, ("./configure", "make", "sudo make install", voila). The GNU C compiler, gcc, already comes with every installation. However, if I recall correctly, the C++ compiler called g++ does not come by default. Downloading it from the repository is simple, though. Usually the makefiles supplied with any source code you compile will boil everything down for you to the three commands above. Compiling chess engines is usually just one command, though ("make"). The engine will compile from the source code, and you'll have an executable just sitting there in the folder ready to be installed into Scid. Just be sure to read the "readme" files if there are any special concerns or instructions.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I hope it was helpful. The Ubuntu community is also wonderfully helpful to newcomers. Usually you can just Google your question and find out that someone has asked it and answered it already.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #9 - 03/15/10 at 19:52:27
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I'm also considering Ubuntu - if there is a free 64 bit version then why spend dough on Windows 7?!

What linux programs for chess should I install if the only purpose is to use it for analysis?

Is Scid the best for that or is there an alternative? How about setting up engine matches, shoot-outs and similar - is that possible in the Linux chess world too?

Is it easy to install engines in linux? One thing I didn't like with Linux last time I tried it, is that you don't get to choose to which folder you want to download stuff - so how do you find the files when installing?

Is there an easy to use compilator in the ubuntu basic installation? I've got the impression that many engines don't come compilated for ubuntu.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #8 - 01/06/10 at 14:04:49
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msiipola wrote on 01/06/10 at 08:14:51:
Markovich wrote on 01/05/10 at 19:15:13:
VMWare is not free. 


See FAQ in: http://www.vmware.com/products/player/faqs.html

What does it cost?
VMware Player is free for personal non-commercial use. VMware Player is only distributable with written permission from VMware. Please apply here to request a distribution agreement.


But, the VMware Playes of course does not include any Windows software, but if you have an old Windows installation disk, which you bought before, you can install it in the player.

I have also used a dual boot configuration before, but it's very inflexible, if you want to use both Linux and Windows frequently.

With the VMware player I can now use most of the Windows programs, except 3D-software.


Well I know that VMWare Player is free, but it surprises me that you're using it, since I had the impression that you already had to have a virtual machine in order to use Player.  How did you create your virtual machine in the first place?  But we learn something every day, so I don't doubt you.

In any case, VirtualBox is not only free, but it installs automatically using Ubuntu's Synaptic package manager.  Once you get it installed, you have to install certain VirtualBox utilities on the guest machine, not the host, to allow easy cursor/mouse transitions between the host and the guest, and some other conveniences.

@battleangel: Maybe it's because I'm an old Unix hand and an Emacs user, but I could care less about fancy buttons and shiny, sculpted task bars.  In fact, I shun them.  What I do care about is that software perform its fundamental purposes well, and Scid does that. 
  

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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #7 - 01/06/10 at 11:23:57
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but the userinterface of scid looks like ...
  
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msiipola
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #6 - 01/06/10 at 08:14:51
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Markovich wrote on 01/05/10 at 19:15:13:
VMWare is not free. 


See FAQ in: http://www.vmware.com/products/player/faqs.html

What does it cost?
VMware Player is free for personal non-commercial use. VMware Player is only distributable with written permission from VMware. Please apply here to request a distribution agreement.


But, the VMware Playes of course does not include any Windows software, but if you have an old Windows installation disk, which you bought before, you can install it in the player.

I have also used a dual boot configuration before, but it's very inflexible, if you want to use both Linux and Windows frequently.

With the VMware player I can now use most of the Windows programs, except 3D-software.
« Last Edit: 01/06/10 at 10:57:14 by msiipola »  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #5 - 01/05/10 at 19:15:13
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VMWare is not free.  VirtualBox is free, and is available via your Ubuntu package manager.  You need a pretty capable machine to use this effectively, however.

There is another discussion of scid somewhere below.

I am fairly sure there are Linux clients for playchess.  Google, ask around.  Can't xboard be configured for it?
  

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zoo
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #4 - 01/05/10 at 17:39:58
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Scid, then. I thought it was no longer maintained, can it browse the standard bigbases and does it provide player or opening report, the most useful features for my needs?
As for VMware, I heard that :
1. it is not free ;
2. one needs to buy Windows as well to run it under VM.
is it true? if so, i'm not enough of a purist to have Linux run Windows for me, but this is no chess. If Chessbase products don't work under Linux, what I miss more is the Playchess client, does anybody know a workaround? 

Edit : Scid homepage tells that development has resumed (latest downloadable archive : jan-2010!). The product features PGN import/export and player/opening report, so everything should be fine (hope performance will be acceptable). I'll try it on Windows while I still have it!
As for the Playchess client it is another story, since fritzserver.org acknowledges no linux support as of end 2008. Any help welcome here!
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #3 - 01/05/10 at 17:09:55
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I don't know if your software will work, but I have tried several softwares with Wine, and I'm rather disappointed. For example I installed Chessbase 9, but when I clicked on any of the menu items, the program crashed. And I wasn't able to install the Chessmaster 11, only one of the older versions (version 6).

A much better solution then Wine, is to install a virtual Windows in your Linux. I'm using the VMware Player in a openSuse 11.1 installation, and it works very good. It's like a "real" Windows, but in a own window. The only drawback it have, it doesn't work with programs which use 3D-hardware acceleration.
  
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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #2 - 01/05/10 at 16:56:34
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I can't answer, though I run Linux (Ubuntu 64 bit).  The reason is that I run a virtual Windows XP machine using VirtualBox.  You might check that out.  It's vastly more convenient than a dual boot.  However, you need a powerful machine if the performance of the guest OS is not to suffer.

If you use Shredder, which is a mighty good engine, and Scid, which is a good chess data base, you can avoid Windows altogether.  Personally I run DeepShredder12 and Scid.  I have CA and Bookup running on the virtual machine, but the only one I really use is Bookup.  Frankly I like Scid better than CA, which is bloatware. 

Oh also, the Hot New Thing, Robolitto, runs on Linux.

Ah, I see now that you said "No Scid."  Well, to each his own.
  

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Re: moving to Linux
Reply #1 - 01/05/10 at 16:35:48
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Chessbase Light and Fritz (12) have both not worked for me.

I dual boot Windows and Linux due to chess software.
  
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zoo
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moving to Linux
01/05/10 at 14:34:19
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Hello,
I'm moving to Linux (Ubuntu 32 bits) for non-chess reasons but would like to keep running some of the fine Windows chess software, eg. through Wine. Could Linux users please tell if the following run properly :
- chess engine : Rybka (said to be ok with wine) or Stockfish (open source, hence compilable).
- chess interface : Aquarium, or Fritz
- chess database : Chessbase or CA (no Scid, thanks)
- online client : Playchess client (or any other connecting to playchess).
Thanks in advance four your replies or suggestions.
  
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