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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is Benko a Two Results Opening? (Read 9017 times)
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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #14 - 01/13/10 at 03:54:26
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I played the 10.Rb1 line in two correspondence games recently, winning both mostly due to a serious opening advantage. (As Markovich says, there's a separate thread on that topic).

I think that if White is ready to play that line, he will score well.  I'm guessing that it would take only someone +1800 to learn it, so perhaps the Benko is indeed back on the critical list.

Of course, if G. Jones' line in Dangerous Weapons is good, then White will have more work to do.  But there aren't that many players who will be conversant with the Bishop retreat line.

So, if I were to take sides between Paddy and TN, I would have agreed with Paddy before I learned the 10.Rb1 line.  If more class players learn to play 10.Rb1 (or its ancillary ideas), then either they won't be class players anymore or the Benko will indeed be on the critical list in open tournaments again.
  
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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #13 - 01/10/10 at 11:55:51
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Glenn Snow wrote on 01/10/10 at 10:58:51:
Markovich wrote on 01/08/10 at 13:55:04:
My opinion about the merits of the Benko is much closer to Paddy's than TN's.  I wasn't aware that White's advantage in the main lines was all that stable, since Black always seems to have pressure long into the game, and if he every manages to regain his pawn he often retains his superior activity.  If there is a system well suited to producing Black wins after 1.d4, the Benko would seem to be it.

The line I would fret over if I took this up would be the fianchetto with 10.Rb1, which as been discussed at some length in other threads.  A recent update said, "The Benko is back!" noting that some strong players are taking it up again, but the question of why there is less fear of the 10.Rb1 line was annoyingly not addressed.

Does anyone have any idea of Black's best play against this based on very recent practice?  Is is this for a few big boys to know and us peons to find out?


Perhaps the variation G.Jones recommended in Dangerous Weapons: The Benoni and Benko in the chapter "A Paradoxical Bishop Retreat" has been holding up well?


I was thinking the same thing, although I believe that recently White found a route to a small but stable edge in this line. I can't remember the game or moves, though.
  

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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #12 - 01/10/10 at 10:58:51
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Markovich wrote on 01/08/10 at 13:55:04:
My opinion about the merits of the Benko is much closer to Paddy's than TN's.  I wasn't aware that White's advantage in the main lines was all that stable, since Black always seems to have pressure long into the game, and if he every manages to regain his pawn he often retains his superior activity.  If there is a system well suited to producing Black wins after 1.d4, the Benko would seem to be it.

The line I would fret over if I took this up would be the fianchetto with 10.Rb1, which as been discussed at some length in other threads.  A recent update said, "The Benko is back!" noting that some strong players are taking it up again, but the question of why there is less fear of the 10.Rb1 line was annoyingly not addressed.

Does anyone have any idea of Black's best play against this based on very recent practice?  Is is this for a few big boys to know and us peons to find out?


Perhaps the variation G.Jones recommended in Dangerous Weapons: The Benoni and Benko in the chapter "A Paradoxical Bishop Retreat" has been holding up well?
« Last Edit: 01/10/10 at 19:42:31 by Glenn Snow »  
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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #11 - 01/08/10 at 16:42:38
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Yes, that is indeed offtopic, as well as obtuse.
  

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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #10 - 01/08/10 at 15:46:46
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(offtopic) I always play for two results: win/draw. I can't understand people complaining why their opening is a two-result one. Who wants to lose??? Cheesy
  

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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #9 - 01/08/10 at 13:55:04
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My opinion about the merits of the Benko is much closer to Paddy's than TN's.  I wasn't aware that White's advantage in the main lines was all that stable, since Black always seems to have pressure long into the game, and if he every manages to regain his pawn he often retains his superior activity.  If there is a system well suited to producing Black wins after 1.d4, the Benko would seem to be it.

The line I would fret over if I took this up would be the fianchetto with 10.Rb1, which as been discussed at some length in other threads.  A recent update said, "The Benko is back!" noting that some strong players are taking it up again, but the question of why there is less fear of the 10.Rb1 line was annoyingly not addressed.

Does anyone have any idea of Black's best play against this based on very recent practice?  Is is this for a few big boys to know and us peons to find out?
  

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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #8 - 01/08/10 at 02:19:32
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Paddy wrote on 01/07/10 at 23:14:55:
A small correction: it was Karel van der Weide who wrote: "When choosing an opening repertoire for Black, I believe you have to search for a line in which you have good drawing chances against a strong opponent and winning chances against a weaker opponent."

Iirc I have read something similar from Van der Wiel indeed before Van der Weide wrote this quote. That must have been in some Dutch chess magazine. Sorry, I am not going to check it.
If my memory for once does not deceive me Van der Weide has taken it from Van der Wiel. After all there are not that many Dutch GM's, they all know each other.
  

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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #7 - 01/08/10 at 01:41:02
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Ooops, my bad and I even frequent chessedelic.com where he's got a couple of videos on the "Volga" and the Sveshnikov!
  
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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #6 - 01/07/10 at 23:14:55
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ChessMonkey wrote on 01/05/10 at 22:29:55:
I've played the KID since I was a teenager back in the mid-70's and, with everyone and their brother being booked up on their pet KID lines nowadays, I've been looking at the Benko for the last few weeks to get a feel for some of the lines (sometimes the c5 Saemisch leads to Benko-like play).  I've been playing some speed games with it and a lot of opponents just avoid it and we transpose to a Maroczy Acc. Dragon (I prefer White, but I'm familiar enough to play Black , although somewhat poorly!). 

When they do play the Benko, however, I find that after I get the pawn back that it results in a drawish position.   Then I ran across this statement from van der Wiel from 2006 - "'When choosing an opening repertoire for Black, I believe you have to search for a line in which you have good drawing chances against a strong opponent and winning chances against a weaker opponent.' As you can see, the Volga-Gambit fails this test: you only have drawing chances against a weaker opponent!"

Is the Benko a two results opening?  I thought it had a better reputation than that?



A small correction: it was Karel van der Weide who wrote: "When choosing an opening repertoire for Black, I believe you have to search for a line in which you have good drawing chances against a strong opponent and winning chances against a weaker opponent." Sources: New in Chess Yearbook and 
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/Pain_and_Anguish_3.html

Below master level I consider that the Benko Accepted even favours Black in practical play over the board, since Black's position is solid and easier to play. It is worth remembering that in the first decade or so of the Benko (roughly late 1960s onwards) the Benko scored well for Black even in master play. It is probably worth playing through annotated games from earlier sources (e.g. Benko, Alburt, Fedorowicz) to get the feel of how Black can play to win.

At higher levels, there are a few problematic lines that are in some need of some restoration work but I remain convinced that the Benko is a sound gambit and still a good practical weapon.
  
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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #5 - 01/07/10 at 21:53:28
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TN wrote on 01/06/10 at 06:07:44:
The Benko has never had a great reputation, as White gains a stable += in the main lines, but below 2500 it is playable, and below 2400 it is a good opening for playing for the win. Pinski even said once that below 2300, the 5.ba6 Benko can be played on autopilot: 5...g6, 6...Ba6, ...d6, ...Bg7, ...Nbd7, ...0-0 (above 2300 you'll need to know to play 10...Nb6 if White plays 7.g3), ...Qa5, ...Rfb8, and look out for tactics.


That's pretty much how I played it. I did not always play ...Qa5 though. Usually I decided behind the board (after all it's move 11 already and the first 10 moves went within five minutes) how to arrange my heavy artillery: Q to a5, b6 or a8.
  

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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #4 - 01/07/10 at 16:22:42
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Thanks to TN and MNb for the helpful responses.  I've only spent a few weeks on this with Pinksi's book and Martin's DVD so I'm still learning the ins and outs and move order issues.  I'm about 1800 and, although I thought my endgame skills were pretty good, I guess you are right and I need to spend more time with Dvorestky's manual since I've definitely blown some endgames that Rybka says I should have held or won.  

Now that I have more time to devote to chess in my old age Grin I'm trying to pick up some different openings as well, so I've also started looking at the Scotch (white) and the Sveshnikov (black) to play some sharper openings than the stuff I've played for years and years which lead to decent results but, in the long run, held back my dvelopment. 
« Last Edit: 01/07/10 at 17:40:04 by ChessMonkey »  
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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #3 - 01/06/10 at 06:07:44
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ChessMonkey wrote on 01/05/10 at 22:29:55:
I've played the KID since I was a teenager back in the mid-70's and, with everyone and their brother being booked up on their pet KID lines nowadays, I've been looking at the Benko for the last few weeks to get a feel for some of the lines (sometimes the c5 Saemisch leads to Benko-like play).  I've been playing some speed games with it and a lot of opponents just avoid it and we transpose to a Maroczy Acc. Dragon (I prefer White, but I'm familiar enough to play Black , although somewhat poorly!). 

When they do play the Benko, however, I find that after I get the pawn back that it results in a drawish position.   Then I ran across this statement from van der Wiel from 2006 - "'When choosing an opening repertoire for Black, I believe you have to search for a line in which you have good drawing chances against a strong opponent and winning chances against a weaker opponent.' As you can see, the Volga-Gambit fails this test: you only have drawing chances against a weaker opponent!"

Is the Benko a two results opening?  I thought it had a better reputation than that?



Firstly, I commend you on deciding to play openings other than the KID against 1.d4 - most players who play only the KID against 1.d4 eventually stagnate due to playing it for too long, which can only be solved by playing other openings as well. 

You will get the Benko in about half of your games if you are below 2000, so make sure you are well prepared for White's d-pawn Specials. 2.Nf3 is a problem for some Benko players, but a good solution is to play 2...c5 and meet 3.c3/e3 with 3...d5 (Black has no difficulties in equalising here) and 3.d5 with 3...b5.

If you can only draw from the slightly better positions you get out of the Benko, then unless you are playing someone over 2300, that is the fault of your endgame play rather than the opening. In any opening, there will always be at least one variation that is somewhat drawish, but usually it can be avoided in some way without making any major concessions. The Volga Gambit seems to pass the 'Van der Wiel test' - for example, Tregubov has beaten weaker players fairly consistently with the Benko the last time I checked. 

By the way, I don't entirely agree with the Van der Wiel quote - the best way to draw against a stronger player is not to play for a draw, but to play aggressively, seize the initiative even at the cost of a pawn, and keep setting problems for the opponent. If you reach a position with 'good drawing chances' against a stronger player, you are just as likely to lose the position as you are to draw it.

The Benko has never had a great reputation, as White gains a stable += in the main lines, but below 2500 it is playable, and below 2400 it is a good opening for playing for the win. Pinski even said once that below 2300, the 5.ba6 Benko can be played on autopilot: 5...g6, 6...Ba6, ...d6, ...Bg7, ...Nbd7, ...0-0 (above 2300 you'll need to know to play 10...Nb6 if White plays 7.g3), ...Qa5, ...Rfb8, and look out for tactics. 

I disagree with downward's advice - the decision of whether to regain the pawn or not depends on the position. For example, regaining a pawn with ...Bg7xNc3 followed by capturing the a-pawn is too risky in some instances, and the only good option in other cases.
  

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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #2 - 01/06/10 at 03:32:55
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ChessMonkey wrote on 01/05/10 at 22:29:55:
Is the Benko a two results opening?

It depends on your level I suppose. I am pretty sure the Benkö offers good winning chances under ELO 2000. It did when I played it about 20 years ago. Concerning that pawn - the very idea is that after winning back one white pawn on the Queen's wing the other immediately becomes a target. In my experience the other main idea - playing c5-c4 and a Knight to d3 - comes close to winning when realized. The last important point if you want to win as Black: don't hesitate to exchange minor pieces, but keep all your heavy artillery.
You can avoid the Sicilian Maroczy with 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3 cxd4 4.Nxd4 not g6. So that should not be a problem.
  

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Re: Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
Reply #1 - 01/05/10 at 22:40:49
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I watched Andrew Martin`s video on the Benko and noticed one important fact: when strong players played black and they had the opportunity to get the pawn back, but this would result in too many exchanges of the pieces, the black players chose different way to proceed - they increased the pressure and did not care about that single pawn.
I think only weak players try to get the pawn back at the first opportunity - that is definitely not the way to play a gambit.
  
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Is Benko a Two Results Opening?
01/05/10 at 22:29:55
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I've played the KID since I was a teenager back in the mid-70's and, with everyone and their brother being booked up on their pet KID lines nowadays, I've been looking at the Benko for the last few weeks to get a feel for some of the lines (sometimes the c5 Saemisch leads to Benko-like play).  I've been playing some speed games with it and a lot of opponents just avoid it and we transpose to a Maroczy Acc. Dragon (I prefer White, but I'm familiar enough to play Black , although somewhat poorly!). 

When they do play the Benko, however, I find that after I get the pawn back that it results in a drawish position.   Then I ran across this statement from van der Wiel from 2006 - "'When choosing an opening repertoire for Black, I believe you have to search for a line in which you have good drawing chances against a strong opponent and winning chances against a weaker opponent.' As you can see, the Volga-Gambit fails this test: you only have drawing chances against a weaker opponent!"

Is the Benko a two results opening?  I thought it had a better reputation than that?

  
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