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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) forcing the MB via 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 e6 (Read 17527 times)
MNb
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Re: forcing the MB via 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 e6
Reply #5 - 01/14/10 at 02:31:43
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HoemberChess wrote on 01/13/10 at 08:53:33:

I play 4.d5--I like playing this move and it is in the repertoire.


You are somewhat contradicting yourself. Via the other routes you don't play c2-c4 and d4-d5 and after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 you suddenly insist.
You may know what you are asking, but like Uruk said: it is not clear to me. To me it sounds like this: "I want to play 3.c4 and 4.d5 but I want to avoid the Modern Benoni."  Huh
But maybe you are right and 6.Bg5 is a serious option, "punishing" Black for this particular move order. I would not know how strong it is.
Of course Black can try to trick you with 4.d5 d6 5.Nc3 Bg7 and to remain consistent you will have to answer ...e6 with dxe6.
  
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HoemberChess
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Re: forcing the MB via 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 e6
Reply #4 - 01/13/10 at 08:53:33
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Uruk wrote on 01/13/10 at 02:21:13:
HoemberChess wrote on 01/12/10 at 18:16:08:

I know what I am asking.


That's good, but I'm not sure it's clear to others.
White has alternatives on move 4, what to say?


Here is the game with 6.Bg5:

[Event "FRA-chT Top 16 GpB"]
[Site "France"]
[Date "2007.02.10"]
[Round "2.1"]
[White "Nisipeanu, Liviu Dieter"]
[Black "Bunzmann, Dimitrij"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E10"]
[WhiteElo "2689"]
[BlackElo "2530"]
[PlyCount "85"]
[EventDate "2007.02.09"]
[EventType "team"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "FRA"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2007.03.07"]
[WhiteTeam "Clichy"]
[BlackTeam "Drancy"]
[WhiteTeamCountry "FRA"]
[BlackTeamCountry "FRA"]

1. d4 e6 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 c5 4. d5 g6 5. Nc3 exd5 6. Bg5 dxc4 7. Ne4 Be7 8.
Nd6+ Kf8 9. e4 h6 10. Bxf6 Bxf6 11. Bxc4 Qa5+ 12. Kf1 Nc6 13. Nxf7 Qb4 14. Nd6
Kg7 15. Rb1 Rf8 16. a3 Qb6 17. Qd5 Ne7 18. Qd3 Nc6 19. Qd5 Ne7 20. Ne8+ Kh8 21.
Qd2 Kh7 22. Nd6 Bd4 23. e5 Nf5 24. Nxf5 Rxf5 25. Bd3 Rf8 26. Nxd4 cxd4 27. Qb4
Qxb4 28. axb4 a5 29. h4 Kg7 30. Ra1 b6 31. Rh3 d5 32. Rf3 Rxf3 33. gxf3 Bb7 34.
Ke2 axb4 35. Rxa8 Bxa8 36. f4 Kf7 37. Bc2 Bc6 38. Kd3 Ke6 39. Kxd4 Kf7 40. f5
gxf5 41. Bxf5 Ke7 42. f4 Bb7 43. Bg4 1-0

I play 4.d5--I like playing this move and it is in the repertoire. (Benko declined with 4..g6, Benoni (not modern), KID with an early ..c5, etc)
I have no objection to playing against the MB, _but_ since this unusual move-order would be the only one for Black to reach the MB against me, I'd like to avoid it altogether, even if it means an "irregular" variation. How good is 6.Bg5? (Or any else deviation for White in this line after 4.d5 g6.)

What's more, should I choose 6.cxd5 (the Modern Benoni continuation) in a particular game, I wouldn't be able to play 7.Qa4+ (..d6 is not in yet), as I would do against the MB reached via the usual move-order. (But actually, the latter issue has nothing to do with this peculiar move-order, Black can omit 6..d6 anyway (1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 c5 4. d5 exd5 5. cxd5 g6 6. Nc3 Bg7), when there is no 7.Qa4 check. 
(Any way for White to exploit the absence of 6..d6 ?)
« Last Edit: 01/13/10 at 11:26:15 by HoemberChess »  
as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Uruk
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Re: forcing the MB via 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 e6
Reply #3 - 01/13/10 at 02:21:13
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HoemberChess wrote on 01/12/10 at 18:16:08:

I know what I am asking.


That's good, but I'm not sure it's clear to others.
White has alternatives on move 4, what to say?
  
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HoemberChess
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Re: forcing the MB via 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 e6
Reply #2 - 01/12/10 at 18:16:08
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MartinC wrote on 01/12/10 at 16:58:38:
If you're happy with 3 e3 vs 2.. c5 and wish to avoid a modern benoni at all costs then then surely e3 rather than d5 was the move? Or maybe 3 Nc3 now that black is committed to g6.

Looks tricky at this point Smiley (6 Bg5 ed surely transpositional?)



I know what I am asking.
  
as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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MartinC
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Re: forcing the MB via 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 e6
Reply #1 - 01/12/10 at 16:58:38
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If you're happy with 3 e3 vs 2.. c5 and wish to avoid a modern benoni at all costs then then surely e3 rather than d5 was the move? Or maybe 3 Nc3 now that black is committed to g6.

Looks tricky at this point Smiley (6 Bg5 ed surely transpositional?)
  
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HoemberChess
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forcing the MB via 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 e6
01/12/10 at 16:28:19
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1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. c4 c5 4. d5 e6 
Let's suppose this move-order is in our repertoire.

Suppose we don't get a regular MB via other move-orders (for we prefer 2..e6 3.e3, 2..c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3, 1..e6 2.Nf3 c5 3.e3, etc), thus this is the only way left for Black to invite us.
Do we have to accept the invitation? (5. Nc3 exd5 6. cxd5 would be a MB.)

I found one game between GMs in which White deviated (6.Bg5).
  
as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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